Toronto Forma | 308m | 84s | Great Gulf | Gehry Partners
- Thread starter golodhendil
- Start date
buildup
Senior Member
Many people wax nostalgic old gritty Manhattans addiction, violent crime, outright poverty, pollution and street prostitution has declined. It used to provide safe vicarious thrills to the tourists in from Toronto and elsewhere.
caltrane74
Senior Member
skyrise
Active Member
There is no way adma is 16. I wish I could articulate that well
Haha I agree adma comes across as a 60 year old, not a 16 year old. Articulate perhaps, but also overly verbose and he has a constant need to draw analogies into every single discussion. Very knowledgeable and sometimes valuable member, but couldn't make a succinct statement/argument if his life depended on it.
adma
Superstar
Succinctness is the enemy of "dense, musty, diseased/grossness", I suppose;-)
Look: far from conservative/reactionary, the heritage movement was actually quite electrifyingly radical in the 60s/70s; all of a sudden, not just individual landmarks but, latently, vast slabs of urbanity were deemed worthy of serious study and positive contemplation--and it pretty much defined the general realm of "architectural tourism" in the quarter century btw/the implosion of Pruitt-Igoe and the opening of the Bilbao Guggenheim. Whereas these days when websites and apps have displaced the old dead-tree Pevsner and AIA guides, it sometimes seems like a schism has developed btw/"capital-A-Architectural" and "capital-H-Heritage" tourism--which is why it isn't the advocacy of the demolition on behalf of Mirvish/Gehry that I find galling per se, so much as the simplistic "Scarborough-needs-its-subways-or-it'll-die" tone it all too often takes. Look--and believe it or not, I can repurpose 70s-style "heritage radicalism" to arrive at this conclusion--Scarborough as it stands is stronger than the indigenous subway-needies give it credit for. And if they don't see it, they're blind t/w what's at their own doorstep. Ditto re Toronto relative to Mirvish/Gehry, even if its proponents are operating at a faaaaarrrrr higher level than Mayor Ford.
Though from the *other* end, re the argument that the existing warehouses are overrated as heritage, it's a telling wonder that nobody's offered a more general "heritage is overrated" statement, which these days *could* be a valid (if radically hyper-libertarian) argument...
skyrise
Active Member
Haha, thanks for that Adma! In great form as always!
The irony here (which has generally not been discussed) is that these buildings could have easily been demolished and turned into parking lots ,strip malls etc. in the early 60's if not for Ed Mirvish. Eventually Ed purchased this entire block to compliment his original purchase of the Royal Alex, which at the time, was slated for demolition.
Courtesy of Wikipedia:
"In addition to Honest Ed's, Mirvish was known in Toronto for his theatres and restaurants.[9] His first purchase was the Royal Alexandra Theatre, an Edwardian landmark building slated for demolition. Mirvish purchased the building in 1962 and refurbished it, revitalizing the Toronto theatre scene.[14] To liven up the neighborhood and provide patrons with a place to go before and after performances, Mirvish bought and renovated a nearby warehouse building, which he turned into a restaurant. To cut costs, Ed's Warehouse at King Street West and Duncan Street served a set meal: prime rib, mashed potatoes and peas.[10] Along the same street, Mirvish later opened Ed's Seafood, Ed's Folly, Ed's Chinese, Ed's Italian Restaurant and Old Ed's, which attracted local residents to the previously neglected King Street area and served 6,000 meals a night. One by one, the restaurants closed down. The last was Ed's Warehouse, which shut its doors in 2000.[10] In 1993 the Mirvishes built the Princess of Wales Theatre, the largest new theatre – and first privately financed theatre – in North America in the span of thirty years."
The irony here (which has generally not been discussed) is that these buildings could have easily been demolished and turned into parking lots ,strip malls etc. in the early 60's if not for Ed Mirvish. Eventually Ed purchased this entire block to compliment his original purchase of the Royal Alex, which at the time, was slated for demolition.
Courtesy of Wikipedia:
"In addition to Honest Ed's, Mirvish was known in Toronto for his theatres and restaurants.[9] His first purchase was the Royal Alexandra Theatre, an Edwardian landmark building slated for demolition. Mirvish purchased the building in 1962 and refurbished it, revitalizing the Toronto theatre scene.[14] To liven up the neighborhood and provide patrons with a place to go before and after performances, Mirvish bought and renovated a nearby warehouse building, which he turned into a restaurant. To cut costs, Ed's Warehouse at King Street West and Duncan Street served a set meal: prime rib, mashed potatoes and peas.[10] Along the same street, Mirvish later opened Ed's Seafood, Ed's Folly, Ed's Chinese, Ed's Italian Restaurant and Old Ed's, which attracted local residents to the previously neglected King Street area and served 6,000 meals a night. One by one, the restaurants closed down. The last was Ed's Warehouse, which shut its doors in 2000.[10] In 1993 the Mirvishes built the Princess of Wales Theatre, the largest new theatre – and first privately financed theatre – in North America in the span of thirty years."
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buildup
Senior Member
Adma, not sure I follow your subway argument about Scarborough. No one is saying Scarb cant survive without a subway, rather its extraordinary difficult for middle income earners stand in the cold and line-up for buses into the core. They deserve better. I have a dog in this hunt, I live in the core, but I don't like recent immigrants having to deal with unnecessary hurdles, esp in winter.
jaycola
Active Member
In the interests of artistic vision, keep this project as it is and move it. Where could it go?
Where else could you build this and keep it the same>
Where else could you build this and keep it the same>
Register123
Active Member
Are you being serious or sarcastic? Poor immigrants freezing ln the Canadian hinterland - dramatic if anything.
maestro
Senior Member
Then again, you're acceptance of height is, " the higher, the better". Height that is nearly twice of Festival Tower should be a serious concern particularly when this "once in a lifetime" design can so easily be swap for something mediocre by even Toronto's standards. I just don't share the optimism here. Mirvish neither has the experience or funds to pull it off even if his intentions are sincere. I'm not convinced on that either based on his track record.
buildup
Senior Member
In my heart of hearts I suspect people from Africa, Caribbean, South America, Asia are not as comfortable standing around in 0 Celsius at 7am. But that isn't politically correct since all people are identical everywhere in all respects. LOL
ushahid
Senior Member
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adma
Superstar
"Generally not been discussed" because "generally understood"--in fact, a lot of what galls the heritage community is the perception that David Mirvish is doing a 180 relative to "family tradition". (Though it's more complicated than that.)
Oh, and back w/the Scarborough subway metaphor: maybe a more useful "it ain't the end of the world" comparison is Toronto's losing various Olympic/World's Fair bids...
RC8
Senior Member
With the subway setup they'll be waiting for buses more often, not less often. With what we are paying for the 3-stop subway we could have built about 14 LRT stations extending through a much wider area, most of them with heated shelters.
The subway plan actually means that people will have to wait for the bus at 7am, get on, and ride it to the nearest subway station. Much fewer people will live within walking distance to a heated station than with the alternatives. Many of us who actually have been car-less immigrants out in the suburbs at some point in our lives preferred LRTs for exactly that reason.
