Toronto First Parliament Site | ?m | ?s

Something tells me that if you even raised the notion of the First Parliament to either Ford, their eyes would glaze over in stupor...
 
Urban Shocker said:
With the broad, treed, pedestrian Esplanade shaping up to be our Ramblas, as the city evolves around it, either a cultural centre, or a memorable architectural flourish, or a work of art would anchor the eastern end nicely.
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Looking at the area from a bird's-eye point of view it would be possible to establish a significant urban hub here where the Esplanade, Front St., Berkeley, Parliament (and heck even King Street) could all come together around a central point, given the right land aquisitions and so on. The potential of this could be enormous.
 
Did you really say that? This is how you get compared to the Fords. By being really dishonest in a few words.
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Spare me the histrionics. It was the site of the first legislative assembly in Ontario, not Canada, but its connection to the war of 1812 was small. If you want to honour the war of 1812 there already is Fort York and its fantastic, soon-to-be-built visitors centre. I don't know why we need to commemorate the war in two, separate places. In fact, I would argue that one very good visitors centre at Fort York is worth more to developing an understanding of the war of 1812 than 100 monuments because there is very little learning and engagement with history to be gained from a stone pillar.

So far on this thread I've been accused of not being visionary and I've been compared to Doug Ford. I actually resent the former more. I care a great deal about Toronto's urban and civic development, but I also recognize that money doesn't grow on trees and that Torontonians have never developed a public square culture.

If money for public spaces is a limited resource, I could think of 1,001 ways that it could be better spent than on a public square at this particular location. That includes upgrading the sidewalks of a busy commercial street that already serves as the heart of a community, refurbishing the public spaces that we already have (as Grimace has mentioned, most public spaces in Toronto are left to deterioriate, so why are we building a new one?) or even building a public square in a part of the city where it is more sorely needed.

I find it ironic that I'm being compared to the Fords; a hallmark of the Fords is that they want to spend money on a wasteful subway to nowhere when that transit money could be so much more effectively used anywhere else. The idea of building a grand public square at Front and Parliament has got to be the Sheppard subway of public spaces.
 
Just because it's "not as important" as bla bla bla doesn't mean it's not important. And again, nobody is seeking to create a Colonial Williamsburg-style faux falsehood here.

(Though one elsewhere-example that might merit mention here is Robert Venturi's Franklin Court)

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The current dome of the Capitol was built during the Civil War, a half century later, as a symbol that the Union still existed. It had nothing to do with the War of 1812.
 
AndreaPalladio said:
The current dome of the Capitol was built during the Civil War, a half century later, as a symbol that the Union still existed. It had nothing to do with the War of 1812.
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My mistake, I thought they built the new one after the old one was burnt to the ground along with the rest of the building.

The White House point still stands though.
 
Obviously we can just cede more land to condos but I'm not sure why it is so wrong to want more public spaces, heritage preservation and urban planning. Yes, we don't do a very good job at it thus far but why not aim higher rather than lower? Whether you choose to acknowledge the historical importance of the First Parliament site or not we can probably all agree that this is an important part of town with lots of potential. This alone should make sense for justifying added funds, more planning attention and higher standards. The tourist potential alone from Yonge to the Don should force us to see things in a different light, right?
 
The burning of the White House and its direct link with First Parliament in Toronto is important because it is an engaging story that opens up a wider dialogue about the War of 1812 in general...

The War of 1812 itself opens up an even wider dialogue because it was the endgame of over a century of imperialism, colonialism, and international warfare that would establish the borders, allegiances and cultural identities that remain in place to this day. If this 'minor event' is diminished in American history it is because their moral high ground in it was fairly sketchy, at best (not to mention any claim to 'victory'). This doesn't mean, however, that certain aspects of it, including the burning of the White House, the Battle of New Orleans and the bombing of Baltimore (Francis Scott Key and the writing of the Star Spangled Banner) aren't thoroughly and entirely engrained in American nationalism and identity.

Again, none of this may be important to you personally but it should mean something to us as Canadians, no matter how insignificant you think it is. Heck, the French 'stormed' the Bastille to find only a few forgotten prisoners there... still, they celebrate the event every year as something pretty damn important!
 
Much of what is celebrated and mythologized around the world, under closer inspection, turns out to be not much of anything. The British, French and Americans are great at mythologizing their history but for some reason, we Canadians just lack the confidence to do the same. We seem to be reluctant to celebrate any of our accomplishments or even our nationhood. Look at the pathetic events that go on in Toronto, on Canada Day. (no parade, no major shows and no great festivals) All we get are cheap hotdogs and maybe a clown painting children's faces. We really need to get over our inferiority complex and just celebrate who we are and also appreciate our history. (that includes our buildings)

Would it really serve the neighbourhood to just put up another ordinary condo, over doing something that promotes our history, provides culture, builds tourism and connects neighbourhoods? Give me a reason why doing the same old condo thing is the best option we have? Oh, and can you do it with a straight face?
 
^^While things that are celebrated and mythologized around the world may have been started by events that are relatively insignificant in historical terms, the celebrations themselves have become culturally significant. U.S. Thanksgiving isn't a big deal because of a dinner between pilgrims and indians, it is because of the whole cultural baggage it has acquired over the years. If we had celebrated the signing of the Treaty of Ghent every year for 200 years it would be culturally significant regardless of the significance of the War of 1812. But we have not. Maybe you raise a port or something, but I have not.

I don't dispute the value that a good public use of this land could have on the area, and I support the idea of a land swap to acquire it. I don't claim to know what the best public use would be. But anything that seeks primarily to highlight the First Parliament and War of 1812 will be duplicative of Fort York and, I would say, a downer. It would just be small scale Colonial Williamsburg.

To my earlier point, though, while I have no problem with a public use of this site, what I think is most important is improving existing sites in the area so that we can really draw attention to these historic districts. St. James Cathedral Park is gorgeous, but the perfectly located Berczy Park, which I just walked through today, really needs improvement. Getting the North Market at St. Lawrence done, along with Market Square and Market Street, is more important. And given it is a link between St. Lawrence Market and Distillery, improving David Crombie Park is more important. I would rather see a big investment in David Crombie Park than a new square at First Parliament. I'm not saying I wouldn't be happy with both, but hey, priorities.

I just don't see that First Parliament deserves precedence to other places because it is First Parliament. And I'm a low-grade history buff. There is absolutely no existing cultural connection to First Parliament. It is part of our history, but not really part of our heritage. Prior to the placards going up, few knew it was there. Maybe this is a sign of our historical amnesia, but hey, that's part of our culture too. I am all for preserving our existing heritage, but reconstructing our forgotten history is low down my list of priorities. If there was money for a full-on City of Toronto museum, or something with a broader focus and that would be popular with tourists and locals alike, great.
 
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