gristle
Senior Member
That's what you said on January 5th, but just to update, forming of the crane pad will start late next week - mid April.
Toronto Fashion House | ?m | 12s | Freed | Core Architects
- Thread starter SpadinaBus
- Start date
That's what you said on January 5th, but just to update, forming of the crane pad will start late next week - mid April.
Red Mars
Senior Member
Pics taken April 11, 2012
Northern Magus
Active Member
Thanks for sharing the pics. Great to hear you've found another donor!
neubilder
Banned
Something really strange - where those guys are standing in RedMars' last pic they will be pouring a heavily reinforced transfer slab almost 5' thick! It will use 300m of cement at a cost of $28,000 - a steady stream of trucks on King all day long. I would love to see those plans and to know why they couldn't resolve the structural grid above and below ground. Transfer beams/slabs are a blunt means of overcoming conflicts, otherwise known as oversights or just poor planning. Bizarre, and a waste.
3jc15
New Member
I have seen the structural drawings for this project. The slabs are not quite 5' thick, more like 3'4" plus a few extra inches in places where it steps. The transfer slabs are required because in this building (like most downtown condos) the structural layout in the suite levels is entirely different than in the parking garage. The spans are different and the layout is different. Therefore it is not possible reconcile the structure above and below without using transfer elements. I've only seen one downtown condo that made that transition work without the huge transfer slabs, and even there there was one small transfer slab at the base of a stair core. (and by small I mean in area, since it was a 50 storey tower, the slab was more than 6' deep)
To say that transfer slabs are the result of poor planning is not usually fair, although it is warranted in some cases. In order to maximize the usefulness of the space, it sometimes makes a lot of sense to have different layouts at different levels. Given that typical suites are around 6.5m across, and typical parking bays are either 5.6m or 8.2m, if you want to maximize the usefulness of the building, it makes sense to have an offset at a certain point, usually the ground floor. This obviously has to be balanced against inefficient use of materials, however given the potential for better retail/amenity spaces and increased parking garage capacity, why would you not take advantage of the ability to add that flexibility to an investment that likely is in excess of $50M for a project like the King Street tower in this case. I've spoken to developers directly regarding transfers, and generally the attitude is "Function First", so a few transfers are part of the cost of doing business. \It might cost $28,000 to do this pour, but if they gain 5 parking stalls on each of 4 underground levels... From what I understand of the industry, Toronto is somewhat unique in using transfer structure so commonly, mostly because we are in such a low seismic risk zone as compared to other cities like Montreal, Vancouver or Ottawa so the building code actually allows the offset of structural elements. So I'm not sure I'd call it a waste or a blunt element solely because a few more meters of concrete are being placed.
urbandreamer
recession proof
13 April 2012: Crane #2 base going in:
neubilder
Banned
@ 3jc15
Fair enough - I was actually going to tone down my statement but you got to it first - I apologize for my bluntness. That being said, 300 is more than just a few metres - and it's only a small surface area of slab. I see your point but surely a couple of parking stalls could be adjusted to line up with grid above? That extra 2 to 4 feet of concrete means more steel, more excavation, more labour, and a slightly compromised structure in the end. A significant cost once you add it all up. I think that massive transfer slabs should be used only as a very last resort.
That north crane base is going to be a doozy eh?
Fair enough - I was actually going to tone down my statement but you got to it first - I apologize for my bluntness. That being said, 300 is more than just a few metres - and it's only a small surface area of slab. I see your point but surely a couple of parking stalls could be adjusted to line up with grid above? That extra 2 to 4 feet of concrete means more steel, more excavation, more labour, and a slightly compromised structure in the end. A significant cost once you add it all up. I think that massive transfer slabs should be used only as a very last resort.
That north crane base is going to be a doozy eh?
Last edited:
3jc15
New Member
This building does have a larger than average extent of transfer slab, however some of the other concerns are not an issue here. Because of the way the ramp slopes, the headroom P1 to ground is very tall, so the depth still leaves plenty of room. Also, it's not easy convincing developers to lose parking. Often times these buildings are designed so that the literally have the minimum parking stalls allowed in the local bylaws. Either way, this seems to be the market in Toronto right now, maybe in the future when development slows down, everyone will be more inclined to manage resources more efficiently, even if it means taking more time to get to market.
AHK
Senior Member
The Fashion House building actually has more parking than the minimum required by the bylaw requirements. If I recall correctly - a portion of the garage was sold to Allied Properties - the objective for Allied being that they could offer additional parking to their nearby commercial properties. Also - some of the Freed buildings in the King West area offer commercial parking in addition to the residential parking areas - 75 Portland and 550 Wellington being examples. As 621 King West (Thompson Residences) will have five underground levels for twelve (or perhaps more) levels above ground, the amount of parking available will exceed those required for the residential component of the building. Presumably some of the parking will be commercial, in support of the applied for 1440 liquor licensed occupancy for the commercial venues in the building.
What I do not know is whether the Allied portion of the Fashion House garage will include the entire commercial parking component, or whether there will be a separate commercial parking component in addition to the portion of the garage purchased by Allied.
3jc15
New Member
Red Mars
Senior Member
Pic taken April 27, 2012
AHK
Senior Member
Second crane going up this weekend. Adelaide was closed at Portland today to stage the crane components for setup.
gristle
Senior Member
Yup, crane went up Saturday. The remainder of the site is to have the in-fill of the dirt ramp removed this week. The base of the ground floor will be finished sometime in early June.
Last edited:
kondoz
Active Member
Perhaps some of the parking can be used by the Keg customers.
Red Mars
Senior Member
Pic taken May 25, 2012
