Toronto Emerald Park Condos | 128.92m | 40s | Bazis | Rosario Varacalli

[sunnyraytoronto]

The issue from the city was still with the height of the project where city only have 100 m cap. City councilor expressed that he doesn't like the project and would like to see it turned down.

Another major issue is density. Density max from city for that land is 4.5,... developer proposing 33% over to 6.0

39 storey tower is 142m and will need to be reduced to 27 storey to meet 100m cap.
30 storey tower is 113m and will need to be reduced to 26 storey to meet 100m cap.
Even with these storeys chopped off,... density still too high.

Original 49 & 40 storey proposal chopped down to 39 & 30,... and still too high and too much density. Especially when you're building it right across the street from 2 storey houses and bungalows.

Another major issue,... part of land (north east corner of lot) is for non-residential use only.

Strong local opposition to this development. On one of the coldest nights of the winter, the school gym was packed with angry locals.

This Emerald Park development will NEVER happen.

 

[Towered]

This is one of the most important intersections in the city. NIMBY's should not have a voice here.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

This is one of the most important intersections in the city. NIMBY's should not have a voice here.

Go to the intersection of Yonge & Sheppard,... examine the neighbourhood behind all 4 corners. You'll notice the south-west neighbourhood is mainly 2 storey houses and bungalows with the exception of 22 storey Nestle office building on Sheppard and a 7 storey office building north of 401 on Yonge. All the other 3 corners have neigbourhoods with lots of buildings,... all buildings within this area's 100m cap! Unlike the propose Emerald Park.

It's not a case of NIMBY,... Emerald Park simply doesn't go with this neighbourhood and both towers exceed the 100m cap and density for the area as well as land use. These rules are developed by our city planners and our democratically elected city officials.

Unless Bazis follow all the city rules for development on the property,... This Emerald Park development will NEVER happen.

 

[AKS]

If this has a height problem. I doubt Hullmark would get built either unless it gets chopped as well.

 

[yyzer]

You'll notice the south-west neighbourhood is mainly 2 storey houses and bungalows

Then those 2 storey houses and bungalows have to go!.....single family residences have no place at an important node like Yonge & Sheppard...If I lived in that part of town, I would do everything to defeat these NIMBYs....

 

[khris]

Then those 2 storey houses and bungalows have to go!.....single family residences have no place at an important node like Yonge & Sheppard...If I lived in that part of town, I would do everything to defeat these NIMBYs....

Exactly. Times have changed, and single family homes at major intersections like this make no sense being there.

 

[interchange42]

Wow - strident bunch.

Of course local homeowners get a say. When you own property you have some rights when it comes to what goes up nearby. That's not to say that the locals will get final say, but why shouldn't their voice be heard in the debate regarding proposed buildings that are larger than what is allowed according to current zoning laws?

Locals get a say, developers get to plead, councillors vote, appeals go to the OMB if the developer sees fit, etc. There's a process.

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[maestro]

100 metres is hardly diminutive even at such an important intersection as Yonge & Sheppard. The limit has also been around for several years after much masterplanning so it really is a slap in the face for Bazis to propose something almost 50% taller. The YIMBYs are bound to disagree however, their views tend to be as extreme any NIMBY . Perhaps even moreso considering the NIMBYs at least usually have a vested interest beyond the typical highrise stats.

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

If this has a height problem. I doubt Hullmark would get built either unless it gets chopped as well.

Of course local homeowners get a say. When you own property you have some rights when it comes to what goes up nearby. That's not to say that the locals will get final say, but why shouldn't their voice be heard in the debate regarding proposed buildings that are larger than what is allowed according to current zoning laws?

Locals get a say, developers get to plead, councillors vote, appeals go to the OMB if the developer sees fit, etc. There's a process.

Tridel Hullmark Centre is even taller at 164m,.. way above 100m cap. And all of Tridel Hullmark Centre site is in Area A - 0% residential allowed by city. Even if city of Toronto rejects Tridel Hullmark Centre, Tridel-Hullmark can appeal to OMB and try their luck there (it might already be in OMB stage). If they get approval by OMB then they'll go ahead regardless of city of Toronto disapproval. So far for Tridel Hullmark Centre, its already been 10 years and counting,....

If rejected by the city of Toronto, Bazis Emerald Park can also appeal to OMB,... and even if OMB approves Bazis Emerald Park project, it's not going to matter,... because at the end of the day the City of Toronto holds the trump card on the Emerald Park site. So you're right that locals won't have final say,.... it's the city of Toronto that WILL have final say regardless of what OMB will says on this one,... and city of Toronto is siding with locals on this one.

Unless Bazis follow all the city rules for development on the property,... This Emerald Park development will NEVER happen.

Then those 2 storey houses and bungalows have to go!.....single family residences have no place at an important node like Yonge & Sheppard...If I lived in that part of town, I would do everything to defeat these NIMBYs....

Well,... what should be built at these important nodes like Yonge & Sheppard,... at & close to the intersection? The city of Toronto have zoned them for 0% residential,... they're for office building & commercial use, etc,... Look at Yonge & Bloor,... south east corner is zoned for % residential,... city would like to see another office tower there,... yet Bazis comes in and proposed massive residential condo tower,... and start selling before they even have approvals.

100 metres is hardly diminutive even at such an important intersection as Yonge & Sheppard. The limit has also been around for several years after much masterplanning so it really is a slap in the face for Bazis to propose something almost 50% taller. The YIMBYs are bound to disagree however, their views tend to be as extreme any NIMBY . Perhaps even moreso considering the NIMBYs at least usually have a vested interest beyond the typical highrise stats.

YIMBY?,... Yes In MY Back-Yard???,... It's more like YIYBY,... Yes In YOUR Back-Yard.

 

[interchange42]

If rejected by the city of Toronto, Bazis Emerald Park can also appeal to OMB,... and even if OMB approves Bazis Emerald Park project, it's not going to matter,... because at the end of the day the City of Toronto holds the trump card on the Emerald Park site. So you're right that locals won't have final say,.... it's the city of Toronto that WILL have final say regardless of what OMB will says on this one,... and city of Toronto is siding with locals on this one.

Wait - why do you say that? AFAIK, the OMB can only be overruled by the Ontario Cabinet. Why would Toronto have final say?

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[AlvinofDiaspar]

What is that "trump card" that the city holds? Beyond that, I have a feeling the project being unacceptable because of the lack of an office component is a
strawman argument.

AoD

 

[Solaris]

AoD ... but the 'commerical+office' premise was the primary direction in order to create the Yonge+Sheppard node ... just as Yonge+Eglinton wouldn't mean anything special if it was just all residential condos (which Yonge+Sheppard is heading towards)

on that basis ... IMO, lack of an office component is a very valid argument

 

[oreoshack]

how is yonge and sheppard heading towards an all residential node? there are many office/commercial spots from just south of sheppard to empress on yonge. i would even argue that there are more office buildings in NYCC then at eglinton (but i would have nothing to prove that point with)

 

[sunnyraytoronto]

Wait - why do you say that? AFAIK, the OMB can only be overruled by the Ontario Cabinet. Why would Toronto have final say?

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What is that "trump card" that the city holds? Beyond that, I have a feeling the project being unacceptable because of the lack of an office component is a
strawman argument.

AoD

Oh little grasshoppers,... listen, research and learn.

The land on which Bazis wants to build Emerald Park (bounded by Yonge Street, Poyntz Avenue, Beecroft Road and Bogert Avenue) is really 2 large lots. The Westernly lot which covers about two-third of the block was originally Area A (0% residential) but the previous owner/developer OMB it and was granted permission to build 2 residential condo towers on that lot about 10 years ago (now Area C max 100% residential),... but for whatever reason never did, they went through all the city applications & rejection, got OMB approvals and then cancelled their plans. The Easternly lot covers about one-third of the block and has Yonge frontage can have residential on south half but north half is Area A (0% residential).

But running right in between these two lots is a city owned lane-way, city owned land,... the city of Toronto's trump card!

And the City of Toronto has a policy of NOT selling lands to developer for projects that the city does not approve of. Both the local residents and the local city councillor have clearly stated their strong disapproval of the Bazis Emerald Park Project as it now stands. The Bazis Emerald Park projects exceed the 100m cap, exceed density limit on the area and plan to place residential usage on land destined for Area A (0% residential allowed), thus the city of Toronto will not approve of Bazis Emerald Park and will not sell the city owned lane-way to Bazis Emerald Park.

If you're in the area, look for this lane-way, its about 10 feet wide and runs north-south from Bogert Avenue to Poyntz Avenue (it's aligned with the laneway south of Poyntz, west of the Shell gas station). Most people don't even know it exist, it hasn't been in service for decades, it's not very well maintained, there's vegetation overgrowth, its fenced off with a yellow guardrail and 8 feet wire fencing. Most would assume it's just part of the parking lot,... but sure enough that's city owned land, right where Bazis plan to build their 142m East tower. Google Earth the Emerald Park site and you'll see East Tower right on top of this city owned laneway (NOTE: Google Earth 3D show east & west tower mixed up and leaning side should be facing west, not east).

Not only has Bazis been selling Emerald Park when they don't even have all the city permits and approvals,... but Bazis been selling Emerald Park on lands they don't even own!

Needless to say,... unless Bazis redesign the entire Emerald Park to comply with all the city of Toronto rules including 100m cap, density of 4.5 for the area and Area A (0% residential) on the north-east part of the lot,.... they will not get the city of Toronto's approval and the city will NOT give up that city owned laneway. With the town hall meeting showing such strong local opposition to this project, it's interesting to see if Bazis will give up after their first extension of March 15 finishes,... or exercise the second extension to June 15th,... and waste even more of everyone's time.

Unless Bazis follow all the city rules for development on the property,... This Emerald Park development will NEVER happen.


NOTE: As if the Bazis Emerald Park Project wasn't complicated enough:
Some background,.... and it'll help to look at a map or Google Earth.
- North York downtown has and is expanding it's ring service road,... a circular network of roads (Poyntz Ave, Beecroft Road, Doris Ave, Anndale Drive, Avondale) in downtown North York used to relieve traffic off heavyly congested Yonge Street. This ring service road will start at Poyntz Ave for east service road and Avondale for west service road (between Sheppard & 401),... eventually extending north of Finch to Dewry & Cummer)
- At the south-east corner of Yonge & Sheppard, Tridel Hullmark Centre is being proposed with two towers,... a 164m north office/condo tower and a south condo tower measuring about 125m,... both violates the 100m cap.
- If Tridel Hullmark Centre goes ahead, they are proposing to donate land at the southern end of their lot to the City of Toronto for the extension of Anndale Avenue to meet Yonge Street,... and Anndale Avenue would also need to be extended from it's current west terminus to Bale Ave (private land maybe required by City) and thus Anndale Avenue will serve as part of the west service ring road,... along with Avondale Avenue 2 blocks south (the city have already expanded Avondale Avenue to be used as part of the service ring road).
- Bazis Emerald Park borders on Beecroft Road and Poyntz Avenue, which are part of the service ring road,... this part of the service ring road is already complete. The City does NOT need any more land here for the service ring road.
- Currently 4-lane Poyntz Avenue (southern side of Emerald Park) at Yonge, lines up perfectly with a 2 lane private roadway on the east side of Yonge Street servicing the 15 floor Proctor & Gamble office building.
- If Anndale Avenue is extended to Yonge Street on the east side, it will meet Yonge just north of the existing private roadway servicing the Proctor & Gamble building.
- Bazis is willing to trade two pieces of their land for the city owned laneway,... one is a piece of land at the north-east corner of Beecroft Road and Poyntz Avenue that would help make that turn easier for drivers. But of course that would only benefit drivers who live & work north of this area and not the locals.
- The other piece of land is at the north-west corner of Yonge Street and Poyntz Avenue so that Poyntz Avenue at Yonge can be widen from it's current 4 lane to 5 or 6 lanes,... so that it'll be easier for drivers to transfer from Poyntz Avenue to the proposed extension of Anndale Avenue. Of course, right now we don't even know if Anndale will be extended to Yonge because we don't even know if Tridel Hullmark Centre will get approval or will even go ahead.
- First of all, How many drivers will actually go from West Service Ring Road to East Service Ring Road and vice versa? The vast majority will be turning onto Yonge Street,... and not crossing over Yonge to the opposite service ring road.
- Secondly, drivers on eastbound Poyntz Avenue at Yonge Street will be facing one of the most insane and dangerous intersection in the city,.... a private roadway with inbound and outbound lane and right beside it is Anndale Avenue with inbound and outbound lanes. This is a recipe for car accidents.

The eastern service ring road will be extended down to Avondale Avenue which is better since it's closer to 401. Few drivers will use the proposed Anndale Avenue at Yonge and it will be dangerous. Furthermore, very few drivers will be transfering from one sevice ring road to the other, thus widening Poyntz Avenue is not needed. The city already has completed the service ring road around around Emerld Park site (Beecroft Road and Poyntz Avenue) and thus Bazis Emerald Park does NOT have any land that the city of Toronto need.

 

[Automation Gallery]

Sunny Ray, Sounds like you live in the area and your totaly against any development in your backyard.