Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[gweed123]

I don't think the ridership forecast was THAT high. And the capacity of at-grade LRT isn't necessarily clear. A system like Eglinton East with only about 5 crossings in 5 km or so and 90-metre long trains, is going to have much higher capacity than the King, or even Spadina streetcar.

12,000 pphpd in 2031. With paired vehicles carrying around 500 people per trains (paired vehicles), that's 1 vehicle just over every 2 minutes, which is an even shorter headway than the King or Queen streetcars.

I have my doubts that, even with a reduced number of stations, the at-grade portion can adequately handle that many passengers effectively. I have a feeling that it would become a choke point.

Ottawa is projecting around 14,000 for the early 2020s, and they were absolutely adamant that the trunk portion of the system must be completely grade-separated.

 

[nfitz]

12,000 pphpd in 2031. With paired vehicles carrying around 500 people per trains (paired vehicles), that's 1 vehicle just over every 2 minutes, which is an even shorter headway than the King or Queen streetcars.

Or three minutes with 3-car trains.

 

[M II A II R II K]

Or metroize the Stouffville Line for a direct route and get to avoid the Bloor, Eglinton, Yonge, and any LRTs altogether.

 

[ssiguy2]

Or do the relatively low cost upgrades for the current SRT to handle MK111 SkyTrain cars, elevate the Kennedy to DM section and create a seemless grade separated system with higher capacity and due to automation, cheaper to run. Would also mean that the current SkyTrain maintenance/garage/control centre would not have to be gutted for LRt but just expanded. Would also mean none of the current SRT stations would have to be redesigned and would also result in almost no interuption to service.

 

[gweed123]

Or three minutes with 3-car trains.

I thought they were planning on running paired vehicles on Eglinton. But I guess they could squeeze in 3 cars. Still would create a pinch point on the at-grade section though.

Or do the relatively low cost upgrades for the current SRT to handle MK111 SkyTrain cars, elevate the Kennedy to DM section and create a seemless grade separated system with higher capacity and due to automation, cheaper to run. Would also mean that the current SkyTrain maintenance/garage/control centre would not have to be gutted for LRt but just expanded. Would also mean none of the current SRT stations would have to be redesigned and would also result in almost no interuption to service.

But would that not mean a substantial redesign of all of the tunnelled portion of Eglinton? You have to wonder if it's really less expensive to do Mark II/III ICTS for Eglinton + converting the SRT vs doing the entire thing as LRT.

On the plus side, Mark II ICTS would guarantee that Eglinton West would be grade separated, so that's definitely a plus.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I always thought the plan was 3 train cars on eglinton, with 2 train cars on Sheppard and finch.

 

[BurlOak]

I don't think the ridership forecast was THAT high. And the capacity of at-grade LRT isn't necessarily clear. A system like Eglinton East with only about 5 crossings in 5 km or so and 90-metre long trains, is going to have much higher capacity than the King, or even Spadina streetcar.

I thought I would count the 5 crossings. They are:

1. DVP SB Ramp
2. DVP NB Ramp
3. Wynford
4. Swift
5. Bermondsey
6. Vic Park
7. Eglinton Square
8. Pharmacy
9. Pharmacy EB Left Turn (200m East of Pharmacy)
10. Lebovic
11. Warden
12. Sinnott
13. Birchmount
14. Rosemount
15. Ionview

From 2010 EA (http://www.toronto.ca/involved/proj...3-project-description-plates-plates-46-89.pdf)

 

[nfitz]

They have to find a way to reduce the number of those. Swift ... really? People only use Swift because Bermondsey backs up.

 

[Hipster Duck]

A cut and cover or elevated Vic Park station would eliminate the relatively complicated intersection around Victoria Park and Eglinton Square and the eastern approach ramp could probably be sited just east of Pharmacy, too. If that were the case, I'd eliminate the Pharmacy station and put the Vic Park station to the immediate east (basically below the strip of grass that is now that forlorn parkette).

They could also eliminate left-turns at Lebovic/Hakimi by having combination U-turns/left turns at Warden and Pharmacy.

 

[BurlOak]

I still think the best option at this point is to go elevated, and either have the City of Toronto fork over the extra cash to make it happen, or take the non-federal funds from Sheppard and put them towards Eglinton East. I'm sure for many Scarberians, they'd much rather see that money going towards creating a 1-seat ride from Scarborough to Yonge anyway.

Also Scarborough to Allen Road (Spadina Line) for those going to York U and U of T.

That option would allow them to keep the SLRT tail at the same length, although it would mean the full cost of the Conlins Rd Yard is borne by the SLRT project and not shared between it and the SELRT. Of course, if it's being run as a single thru-line there may be an option of running everything out of Mt. Dennis, although I'm not sure if it has enough capacity for that.

The 2 main alternatives are to have the continuous ECLRT/SRT or to have in-median ECLRT, no SRT, and B-D extended to STC (or Sheppard). My question is which would work better:
1. The ECLRT/SRT with the Kodak Yard in the West and a small yard at McCowan in the East - No Conlins, or
2. The ECLRT with the portion to Kennedy in-median, with only the Kodak Yard in the West.

I would guess that having a smaller yard in the East, with extra track would be better than no yard in the East, with a shorter track length.

 

[gweed123]

Also Scarborough to Allen Road (Spadina Line) for those going to York U and U of T.

True. In fact I hope a lot of riders take the extra couple of stops over to Spadina anyway, in order to avoid Yonge. Part of the reason so many riders get on at Yonge is because that's where the bus routes are split. Even just trying to cross Yonge on Eglinton right now is a PITA, because most of the time you have to physically transfer buses.

The 2 main alternatives are to have the continuous ECLRT/SRT or to have in-median ECLRT, no SRT, and B-D extended to STC (or Sheppard). My question is which would work better:
1. The ECLRT/SRT with the Kodak Yard in the West and a small yard at McCowan in the East - No Conlins, or
2. The ECLRT with the portion to Kennedy in-median, with only the Kodak Yard in the West.

I would guess that having a smaller yard in the East, with extra track would be better than no yard in the East, with a shorter track length.

IMO the decision on the B-D extension needs to happen at the same time as a decision on Eglinton East. The two are really intertwined, and one or the other is needed in order to not have transfer mania just to get into or out of Scarborough. It's really one or the other, and either way I hope at least some of the funds come from changing the SELRT from LRT to shoulder bus lanes. That $650 million could probably cover most of the elevated section of Eglinton East, but more would be needed if the subway extension option was chosen.

As for the yards, if the B-D option is chosen the Kodak yard should work fine. If the interlined option is chosen, I would think that a small supplementary yard at McCowan would do the trick (in addition to Kodak). If I recall correctly, the rationale behind a new yard at Conlins is that the SELRT would need a yard anyway, and McCowan wouldn't be big enough to accommodate both, so they decided to build a new larger yard near the intersection of the two lines. With the SELRT out of the picture (hopefully) in the interlining scenario, that rationale mostly goes out the window, so McCowan can be retrofitted and used as a secondary yard.

A B-D extension probably wouldn't require a new yard, although it's likely than any subsequent extension of B-D would (say to Sherway or Sq 1).

 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Now I'm getting confused. From thecrosstown.ca website at this link:

Request for Qualifications Issued for the Eglinton Crosstown Light Rail Transit (LRT) and Scarborough LRT Lines


January 22, 2013

Metrolinx and Infrastructure Ontario have released a request for qualifications to pre-qualify and short-list companies to deliver the Eglinton Crosstown Light Rail Transit (LRT) project and Scarborough LRT lines. The outcome of the RFQ process will pre-qualify and short-list companies to deliver the Eglinton Crosstown Light Rail Transit (LRT) line and Scarborough LRT line.

Following the RFQ stage, a request for proposals (RFP) will be issued to the pre-qualified short-listed project companies. On the basis of the RFP submissions, a winning company will be selected to design, build, finance and maintain both LRT lines. The successful company will be announced in fall 2014. Construction is also expected to start in fall 2014.

I'm assuming the 2014 start year is for the Scarborough LRT line, but from the PDF at this link, there is this information:

Together with Metrolinx, Infrastructure Ontario has released a request for qualifications today to pre-qualify and short-list companies to deliver the Eglinton Crosstown Light Rail Transit (LRT) and Scarborough LRT lines.

The Eglinton Crosstown LRT will run from the Jane Street/Black Creek area to Kennedy station. The existing Scarborough Rapid Transit system will be converted to a LRT and be extended from McCowan station to Sheppard Avenue. Once complete, the two new light rail transit systems will connect to 54 TTC bus routes along the lines and the Sheppard East LRT.
Other infrastructure and services being procured include:

• up to 33 stops and stations -- about 25 stops and stations will be on the Crosstown and up to eight (8) stations will be on the Scarborough LRT (either underground, at-grade or elevated)
• elevated guideways and tunnel sections
• signals and communications
• a vehicle maintenance and storage facility
• integration, testing and commissioning, and maintenance of the LRT system
• additional infrastructure, such as roads, bridges, utilities, parking, bus terminals, road signing and lighting, traffic management and detours

The two LRT lines will be delivered using an alternative financing and procurement delivery model – a public-private partnership. The model provides the public sector an opportunity to transfer project risks to the private sector, which commits to delivering projects on time and on budget.

The TTC will operate the LRT lines under an operating agreement with Metrolinx.

The request for qualifications is the first step in a competitive tendering process to select a company to design, build, finance and maintain the Eglinton Crosstown LRT and Scarborough LRT lines. A copy of the request for qualifications document is available at www.merx.com.

Submissions will be evaluated to short-list companies with the design, construction and maintenance capability and experience, the qualified personnel and the financial strength to deliver the two new LRT lines. Short-listed teams will be invited to respond to a request for proposals, expected to be released in summer 2013.

The confusing part is the "The Eglinton Crosstown LRT will run from the Jane Street/Black Creek area to Kennedy station" part. They don't seem to know where the western terminal for the Eglinton Crosstown, its not yet a firm decision.

 

[innsertnamehere]

My understanding is that they did not know the terminal station until recently, but black creek / Weston had since been selected as the location.

 

[nfitz]

Now I'm getting confused. From thecrosstown.ca website at this link:

I'm assuming the 2014 start year is for the Scarborough LRT line, but from the PDF at this link, there is this information:

The confusing part is the "The Eglinton Crosstown LRT will run from the Jane Street/Black Creek area to Kennedy station" part. They don't seem to know where the western terminal for the Eglinton Crosstown, its not yet a firm decision.

It's not really firm until they revise the EA. They did make the recent announcement about it being at Mount Dennis, but they still have to complete the EA.

Good to see some progress! Based on IO's previous schedule, the RFP for the Sheppard East Maintenance facility should be restarted shortly as well.

Here's the IO page for the Eglinton and Scarborough lines - http://www.infrastructureontario.ca/Templates/Projects.aspx?id=2147489839

and here's their out-of-date page for the Sheppard East Maintenance and Storage Facility - http://www.infrastructureontario.ca...eppard-East-Maintenance-and-Storage-Facility/

 

[skylyte]

Now I'm getting confused. From thecrosstown.ca website at this link:



I'm assuming the 2014 start year is for the Scarborough LRT line, but from the PDF at this link, there is this information:



The confusing part is the "The Eglinton Crosstown LRT will run from the Jane Street/Black Creek area to Kennedy station" part. They don't seem to know where the western terminal for the Eglinton Crosstown, its not yet a firm decision.

The "eight (8) stations" on the Scarborough LRT is a surprise. Currently we have: Kennedy, Lawrence East, Ellesmere, Midland, Scarborough (Town) Centre and McCowan. Will the final two be stations on the proposed "Malvern" extension (Bellamy, Markham/Centennial Progress, Sheppard/McCowan and Malvern Town Centre) or the long rumoured/desired Brimley stop?