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Toronto Eglinton Line 5 | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

T3G said:
Well, sure, but what's the argument here? Shouldn't we try to aim for the best frequencies possible?

Personally, I have no idea how larger than 8 minute frequencies will attract people to use the service.
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I don't think that we should be looking at what other cities do, as it has no bearing on what the actual ridership of the corridor is today or in the past.

And when you consider at shortly before construction that there was something like 40 buses/hour every morning rush hour east of Yonge and 33 buses/hour west of the Allen, that should go a long way towards figuring out what the required headways will be. Especially once you factor in the rated capacity of each vehicle - that means that the rated capacity of the service is about 2000/passengers/direction/hour to the east and 1700/passengers/direction/hour to the west.

Working backwards from those figures - and assuming that the Crosstown LRVs are going to have roughly similar capacities to the Flexities downtown (130 people per vehicle), that means that the TTC should be looking at running the trains at a little less than 8 minute headways.

pmacpherson68 said:
On the topic of Yonge/Eglinton LRT station - looks like the secondary entrance at the old Sally Anne site seems to be derelict. Is the plan to just get the main entrance done first and open the secondary entrance after the line opens?
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The old Salvation Army site isn't going to be an entrance/exit, but rather just for ventilation and emergency access - that's the concrete stacks at the back of the site.

The steelwork going up - and I can assure you it's not derelict, it's only been up for a couple of months - is for the new Salvation Army facility that is being built there.

Dan
 
smallspy said:
I don't think that we should be looking at what other cities do, as it has no bearing on what the actual ridership of the corridor is today or in the past.

And when you consider at shortly before construction that there was something like 40 buses/hour every morning rush hour east of Yonge and 33 buses/hour west of the Allen, that should go a long way towards figuring out what the required headways will be. Especially once you factor in the rated capacity of each vehicle - that means that the rated capacity of the service is about 2000/passengers/direction/hour to the east and 1700/passengers/direction/hour to the west.

Working backwards from those figures - and assuming that the Crosstown LRVs are going to have roughly similar capacities to the Flexities downtown (130 people per vehicle), that means that the TTC should be looking at running the trains at a little less than 8 minute headways.



The old Salvation Army site isn't going to be an entrance/exit, but rather just for ventilation and emergency access - that's the concrete stacks at the back of the site.

The steelwork going up - and I can assure you it's not derelict, it's only been up for a couple of months - is for the new Salvation Army facility that is being built there.

Dan
Click to expand...
good to know.. .thanks.
 
smallspy said:
I don't think that we should be looking at what other cities do, as it has no bearing on what the actual ridership of the corridor is today or in the past.

And when you consider at shortly before construction that there was something like 40 buses/hour every morning rush hour east of Yonge and 33 buses/hour west of the Allen, that should go a long way towards figuring out what the required headways will be. Especially once you factor in the rated capacity of each vehicle - that means that the rated capacity of the service is about 2000/passengers/direction/hour to the east and 1700/passengers/direction/hour to the west.

Working backwards from those figures - and assuming that the Crosstown LRVs are going to have roughly similar capacities to the Flexities downtown (130 people per vehicle), that means that the TTC should be looking at running the trains at a little less than 8 minute headways.
Click to expand...
8 Minutes would be ridiculous, at least pre-pandemic. You don't just have to worry about the 40 Eglinton buses, but all the new induced demand and new surface route connections. For instance, I would very much expect some people to start taking the Lawrence east bus now that they have a much easier connection to the subway network. Given we're still dealing with a pandemic shortfall, 5 minutes seems reasonable enough for now, but that will definitely have to increase as ridership improves.
drum118 said:
If one looks at ridership and other systems in Europe, you see a need for 5-15 minutes service with 10 being the norm. Even in the US its 5-15 with 15 being the norm on a lot of systems with a few being only every 15.

I am expecting to see Hurontario starting off at 10 with one car then having a second car added. Wouldn't be surprised to 15 on the weekend and late at night time 7 days a week.

Even the S Bahn see 10 minute service at best.
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Those 10-minute frequencies are on the outskirts of a system, or mixed sections (~2 lines), but certainly not the central section. You go to any Stadtbahn system (Koln, Dusseldorf, Hannover for instance), and the frequencies within the tunnel are usually around every 2 minutes, especially at the peak hour.
 
Streety McCarface said:
8 Minutes would be ridiculous, at least pre-pandemic. You don't just have to worry about the 40 Eglinton buses, but all the new induced demand and new surface route connections. For instance, I would very much expect some people to start taking the Lawrence east bus now that they have a much easier connection to the subway network. Given we're still dealing with a pandemic shortfall, 5 minutes seems reasonable enough for now, but that will definitely have to increase as ridership improves.

Those 10-minute frequencies are on the outskirts of a system, or mixed sections (~2 lines), but certainly not the central section. You go to any Stadtbahn system (Koln, Dusseldorf, Hannover for instance), and the frequencies within the tunnel are usually around every 2 minutes, especially at the peak hour.
Click to expand...
Should we start a pool on the new new new launch date?
 
Streety McCarface said:
8 Minutes would be ridiculous, at least pre-pandemic. You don't just have to worry about the 40 Eglinton buses, but all the new induced demand and new surface route connections. For instance, I would very much expect some people to start taking the Lawrence east bus now that they have a much easier connection to the subway network. Given we're still dealing with a pandemic shortfall, 5 minutes seems reasonable enough for now, but that will definitely have to increase as ridership improves.
Click to expand...

For the record, I wasn't suggesting that the headway would be 7 minutes 45 seconds - just that the capacity requirements to replace what was there before construction would require that as a starting point. The TTC has a long history of running more service than they absolutely need on rapid transit lines, and I don't see that being any different here.

Toronto Rocks said:
Should we start a pool on the new new new launch date?
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The operator moves and training - which were originally supposed to start in August - are currently scheduled to start in January. It sounds as if the TTC is currently estimating that revenue service will start in September.

Dan
 
pmacpherson68 said:
I think they will try to get it done and opened for Canada Day... (but I predict they won't say anything about it until late April/early May)
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Based on the report on Ottawa, LRT systems, TTC is going to go very slow on testing the system to make sure they have all their boxes check off before even look coming up with an opening date.

One hopes that ML will doing their own testing during the coming winter months to see how the cars run, but since they are BBD cars in the first place, similar to TTC Fleet, it shouldn't be an issues,

Finch LRV's are a different story.

When it open in 2023, it will open not when ppl think it should
 
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