Toronto Eaton Centre (Ongoing Renewal) | ?m | ?s | Cadillac Fairview | Zeidler

[maestro]

Of course they have something to do with it. If they enter into dumb contracts that allow other companies to make dumb decisions, that still lies with CF. In fact, "they just collect rent" aptly sums up the problems, and fundamental lack of ambition, associated with CF.

How is not going with an incredibly expensive curved screen a dumb decision? That's something you build up towards.

As for CF, they are a real estate arm of a pension fund. They're ambition is to make profit wielding decisions. It's nice to reflect on a time when ambition wasn't just the bottom line but, in the end, it didn't really turn out that great for all of us. These guys collectively had tens of billions of debt written off at our expense once the bubble popped. The Eaton Centre is also a mall in which tenants now demand artistic control over their storefronts and the look of the common areas. Why wouldn't CF, the landlord, do whatever suits them best?

 

[kotsy]

"...[d]reams crushed" not, I think.

The approved June 8th application (cited and appended) is for "two illuminated LED screens", each measuring 13.72m (horizontally) x 27.43m (vertically), or 45ft x 90ft; clearly "portrait" as opposed to "landscape" (current status). 90 ft = the height of the previously two combined smaller screens (see MetroMan's post above).

But as MetroMan pointed out, the old screens had framing and spacing in between that likely added up that remaining 10ft.

 

[Light]

But as MetroMan pointed out, the old screens had framing and spacing in between that likely added up that remaining 10ft.

Hope "screens" eternal. Let's see what next week brings. My optimism is based on a literal interpretation of the June 8th approval.

I was watching the BBC World News' coverage of the G20 coverage in Hangzhou, China, and in the reporter's background appeared to be some kind of LED screen that is seamlessly integrated into the curved façade of the upper floors of a rather tall curtain-glass type skyscraper (wow!) Hangzhou is obviously quite developed and wealthy (Alibaba's HQ'd there). Not sure when Toronto would do something like that (the new Deloitte building would h/b a good candidate). Such illumination schemes are more popular in Asia, e.g., Pudong of Shanghai, Shibuya-crossing of Tokyo, Civic Arena of Taipei, Gangnam of Seoul, skyscraper housing Kowloon's Ritz-Carlton.

What would really put YDS at the cutting edge would be the use of large outdoor holographic commercials. I'm uncertain it's been done, yet. If so then most likely first in South Korea or Japan.

 

[Skeezix]

How is not going with an incredibly expensive curved screen a dumb decision? That's something you build up towards.

As for CF, they are a real estate arm of a pension fund. They're ambition is to make profit wielding decisions. It's nice to reflect on a time when ambition wasn't just the bottom line but, in the end, it didn't really turn out that great for all of us. These guys collectively had tens of billions of debt written off at our expense once the bubble popped. The Eaton Centre is also a mall in which tenants now demand artistic control over their storefronts and the look of the common areas. Why wouldn't CF, the landlord, do whatever suits them best?

Nobody said they they shouldn't be able to do what suits them. I'm not advocating leninist-marxist control of the economy. But in a free society, just as they are able to commit archirtectural damage on the Eaton Centre, people are entitled to criticize their work as being [insert lots of synonyms here for dull and uninspired]. They've gutted most of the unique interiors, the new interiors resemble a public washroom, the exteriors are an incoherent mess, and like much else CF does, the media tower is a missed opportunity. Maybe they should have let it go belly up in the mid-1990s. I'm being a bit facetious in respect of that last bit, but truthfully we might not be stuck today with a company waiting to "build up" towards being innovative.

 

[MetroMan]

- LEDs pixels are the same size as those on H&M. For that viewing distance, it'll look like print.

- Uniqlo and mystery store's scaffolding has been removed. I guess they'll continue cladding with a portable lifting platform.

- Mystery store may actually be already built behind those walls. Blue skin looks temporary.

 

[Light]

I wonder if "mystery store" is the result of a failed leasing arrangement, and that it really is still a placeholder(?) It is counter-intuitive for a retailer to remain "mysterious" since drumming up anticipation and excitement in advance of opening translates into sales. Then again, this may be a new marketing tactic(?)

The Uniqlo façade looks like a Lego block; really cool. The clean white façade is characteristic of their branding.

 

[MetroMan]

I wonder if "mystery store" is the result of a failed leasing arrangement, and that it really is still a placeholder(?) It is counter-intuitive for a retailer to remain "mysterious" since drumming up anticipation and excitement in advance of opening translates into sales. Then again, this may be a new marketing tactic(?)

Which is why many of us had a strong hunch that it had to be Apple. I don't know of any other retailer who forgoes months of promoting the opening of a new store.

However, given the placement under such a prominent Uniqlo sign, I would bet against it being Apple. They're more likely to go in the restored historic brick building currently housing Atmosphere at Yonge/Queen.

The Uniqlo façade looks like a Lego block; really cool. The clean white façade is characteristic of their branding.

That Lego block look will be gone soon. The 2 red Uniqlo logos will go in there. Now that it's nearly finished, I actually think that it looks nice. It's a continuation of the upper segment of the Eaton Centre facade, but white instead of beige. It flows well.

 

[Light]

Which is why many of us had a strong hunch that it had to be Apple. I don't know of any other retailer who forgoes months of promoting the opening of a new store.

However, given the placement under such a prominent Uniqlo sign, I would bet against it being Apple. They're more likely to go in the restored historic brick building currently housing Atmosphere at Yonge/Queen.



That Lego block look will be gone soon. The 2 red Uniqlo logos will go in there. Now that it's nearly finished, I actually think that it looks nice. It's a continuation of the upper segment of the Eaton Centre facade, but white instead of beige. It flows well.

Your analysis eliminating Apple makes sense. Given that the NE corner of the CFEC is now fast-fashion central, I would not be surprised if another such retailer would set up shop there.

I love Uniqlo's clean minimalist logo. The Romanization of their Japanese katakana name actually is Yu Ni Ku Ro; by putting in that 'q', they play on the "unique" and "glow". Pretty cool.

 

[maestro]

Nobody said they they shouldn't be able to do what suits them. I'm not advocating leninist-marxist control of the economy. But in a free society, just as they are able to commit archirtectural damage on the Eaton Centre, people are entitled to criticize their work as being [insert lots of synonyms here for dull and uninspired]. They've gutted most of the unique interiors, the new interiors resemble a public washroom, the exteriors are an incoherent mess, and like much else CF does, the media tower is a missed opportunity. Maybe they should have let it go belly up in the mid-1990s. I'm being a bit facetious in respect of that last bit, but truthfully we might not be stuck today with a company waiting to "build up" towards being innovative.

Neither was that even remotely implied.

I just don't see the point of singling out CF when, for the most part, they are providing the same service as any commercial developer that would do the same or worse to the Eaton Centre. Innovation is spearheaded through fierce competition among developers or by tenants willing to set aside their own identities for the sake of architectural design. The former has its share of concerns as, in the case of the US, has led to decades of overbuilding and levels of abandonment uncommon in Canada all at the taxpayers' expense. That's my opinion as much as I dislike what is happening to the Eaton Centre and beyond.

 

[Amare]

How do you know this it's behind schedule?

I walked through the site about a week ago, and it's very apparent. It's to the point where merchandise cant be moved into the store for at least another month or two, maybe even longer. Let's not forget employees would have to get trained in the store as well which would take another few weeks minimum. Like I said, construction *could* be sped up which would allow the store to open in time for the fall.

Next time I get the chance, i'll try and grab a photo.

 

[Light]

I walked through the site about a week ago, and it's very apparent. It's to the point where merchandise cant be moved into the store for at least another month or two, maybe even longer. Let's not forget employees would have to get trained in the store as well which would take another few weeks minimum. Like I said, construction *could* be sped up which would allow the store to open in time for the fall.

Next time I get the chance, i'll try and grab a photo.

Since autumn ends on December 21st, then technically, as long as they open before that date then their announcement would be accurate. However, in the context of retail, most people think of fall as Sept/Oct.

It would be worth the wait. Uniqlo has a global presence with their well-designed, affordable and higher-quality clothes.

 

[Johnny Au]

Since autumn ends on December 21st, then technically, as long as they open before that date then their announcement would be accurate. However, in the context of retail, most people think of fall as Sept/Oct.

It would be worth the wait. Uniqlo has a global presence with their well-designed, affordable and higher-quality clothes.

...and some expect it to open by Black Friday.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Is this open yet?

 

[Skeezix]

Neither was that even remotely implied.

I just don't see the point of singling out CF when, for the most part, they are providing the same service as any commercial developer that would do the same or worse to the Eaton Centre. Innovation is spearheaded through fierce competition among developers or by tenants willing to set aside their own identities for the sake of architectural design. The former has its share of concerns as, in the case of the US, has led to decades of overbuilding and levels of abandonment uncommon in Canada all at the taxpayers' expense. That's my opinion as much as I dislike what is happening to the Eaton Centre and beyond.

You see, this is the fundamental point of disagreement (and I suspect we will have to agree to disagree) - I disagree that tenants' identities and architectural design are mutually exclusive, and the fact that CF's competitors in this country are almost as bad does not prove that they are. As we have seen in numerous examples in these threads, architectural design and strong tenant identity can go hand in hand - the former need not exist independent of the tenants. As competition gets fiercer and fiercer, I believe that centres that have been stripped of all sense of place will have a harder time competing. As far as I am concerned, CF is digging its own grave in the long term.

Lack of architectural merit has nothing to do with retail overbuilding.

 

[Northern Light]

You see, this is the fundamental point of disagreement (and I suspect we will have to agree to disagree) - I disagree that tenants' identities and architectural design are mutually exclusive, and the fact that CF's competitors in this country are almost as bad does not prove that they are. As we have seen in numerous examples in these threads, architectural design and strong tenant identity can go hand in hand - the former need not exist independent of the tenants. As competition gets fiercer and fiercer, I believe that centres that have been stripped of all sense of place will have a harder time competing. As far as I am concerned, CF is digging its own grave in the long term.

Lack of architectural merit has nothing to do with retail overbuilding.

I'll drop into the chat here to say that I completely agree w/the above.

But just to show my contrarian streak, I completely disagree about curved screens.........only because I want every form of urban billboard banned. ( I have some sympathy for the utility of the rural highway side variety, in moderate numbers)

I just don't see architectural, technological or other merit in big honking advertising everywhere. That's not good design in my books. The words would be
crass, overly commercial, ugly and un-needed.

Before anyone utters Times Square..........yes, Times Square is ugly.