Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[Palma]

Eglinton east of Leaside is mostly a 7 lane road with metres of empty space on either side...it's more than wide enough for vehicles to run in a trench in the middle/side of the road, especially since the blocks are very, very long between Leaside and Kennedy. Even if Eglinton was reduced to a 4 lanes from 6-7, the benefits of gaining a real rapid transit line on the corridor far outweigh this and would absorb tons of car traffic. Virtually everything along Eglinton is Avenues-fodder, anyway, so some plazas could be acquired if needed for the sake of, say, some larger stations.

So why are people crying that Eglinton east of Larid is so packed with cars and can't afford to loose 2 lanes of traffic?
Today I was driving across St. Clair which I do every week taking my son to karate. Smooth sailing on the way there right before rush hour I guess, arriving there at 4:45pm. Leaving at 5:45 to come back home there was traffic - both lanes full of cars - the streetcar running past us uninterrupted as should be. But if it were Rob Ford there he would be complaining S. Clair is a mess. A mess for people who want as much lanes as possible for cars maybe. Even if there was an extra lane it too would be full of cars - like they say, build it and they shall come. As we got closer to Oakwood I discovered the problem, was a truck stopped by the curbside probably delivering something. Once we passed it smooth sailing all the way to Caledonia.
I am really tired of always hearing people complain St. Clair is a mess – its not. During rush hour there are 2 lanes of traffic for cars in each direction (what most streets in Toronto have by the way) during rush hour and 1 lane outside of rush hour since there may be cars parked and taking up 1 lane as they are allowed to be. The only problem with St. Clair is all the stops. There are so many intersections so of curse all the corresponding stoplights. Thats it. It is not a mess.

 

[Palma]

http://toronto.openfile.ca/blog/news/2012/rob-and-doug-ford-show-recap-week-four

I heard when you asked that question about Calgary and I noticed. And I thing I also noticed is that on his shows there are so many interruptions for traffic. How can that be - and its a Sun. I listen to the station all week (in the background of my computer on the internet) and they have no where that many interruptions for traffic. Ford uses that when he does not want to answer the question - thats what i have noticed or cut someone off. How can that station be a mouth piece for him?

I cannot believe the ratings are great - perhaps in the beginning because people want to see how he handles himself and if he trips himself up but after a while the same old same old. People should send emails to the station manager

 

[jje1000]

I heard when you asked that question about Calgary and I noticed. And I thing I also noticed is that on his shows there are so many interruptions for traffic. How can that be - and its a Sun. I listen to the station all week (in the background of my computer on the internet) and they have no where that many interruptions for traffic. Ford uses that when he does not want to answer the question - thats what i have noticed or cut someone off. How can that station be a mouth piece for him?

I cannot believe the ratings are great - perhaps in the beginning because people want to see how he handles himself and if he trips himself up but after a while the same old same old. People should send emails to the station manager

That wasn't me. Still, I imagine that a large part of his ratings are driven by those curious to see what Ford says next.

 

[Palma]

That wasn't me. Still, I imagine that a large part of his ratings are driven by those curious to see what Ford says next.

That the only reason I tune in. It was meshuga and i thought I posted with his quote. Sorry. But I did send an email to the radio station on the show and Ford and how bias it is

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Eglinton subway is badly needed. The central sections of Eglinton are traffic choked close to 24/7 so the current bus service is totally ineffective. Plus Eglinton to the airport would serve a major employment area in Mississauga, relieving a very busy section of 401, and is arguably more important than Sheppard.

Eglinton won't get anywhere near the jobs in Mississauga unless it loops all the way around Explorer and Matheson for a few kilometres. Maybe 3 buildings will be within walking distance. The entirety of Eglinton West from Renforth to Yonge has, what, 5,000 jobs? And most of them are in schools in the neighbourhoods off Eglinton. It's a subway to Bob Rae's riding...there aren't that many worse places to sink billions of dollars of transit dollars than Eglinton West. Lawrence/Dixon would be a better place to put a transit line.

As for the airport, once you factor out the people coming from the north or the west or the south or far to the east, the people who will continue to drive, the people who will take the downtown rail link, the people who would never drag kids + luggage on transit, etc., Eglinton can only hope to capture a small percentage of trips to Pearson.

Congestion on Eglinton could be significantly reduced just by building a proper interchange at the Allen.

So why are people crying that Eglinton east of Larid is so packed with cars and can't afford to loose 2 lanes of traffic?

You wouldn't need to lose traffic lanes east of Laird. There's barely a building frontage anywhere near the road east of there, unlike St. Clair. There's tons of room, metres and metres of it. Rebuilding the entire street will be a component of any option, anyway. There's probably room for 7 lanes of traffic, 2 lanes of transit (or any sort of trench/elevated supports), bike lanes, landscaping, etc. But the city has no intention of exploring every option for Eglinton, and even if they did people are stupid and would still complain.

 

[Paleo]

As for the airport, once you factor out the people coming from the north or the west or the south or far to the east, the people who will continue to drive, the people who will take the downtown rail link, the people who would never drag kids + luggage on transit, etc., Eglinton can only hope to capture a small percentage of trips to Pearson.

That's pretty much true for anything outside of downtown. That's why the forecast volumes for TYSSE, RHC, and Sheppard look so bad.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

That's pretty much true for anything outside of downtown. That's why the forecast volumes for TYSSE, RHC, and Sheppard look so bad.

The three extensions you mentioned would all be busier than Eglinton West. Eglinton East is another thing (especially once you dump half the SRT riders onto it), but the difference for Eglinton West is that there's nothing there. No jobs, no schools, no malls, few large concentrations of people, very little prospects for redevelopment, and maybe, what, 1,500 people per hour now on the bus? There's only so many people that will be diverted from other routes (and of course, no mention is ever made of GO integration for areas like Rexdale) and the 'airport market' is much smaller than it seems. But it's all moot because Eglinton got funded, though the line may never actually reach the airport, anyway.

 

[rbt]

But it's all moot because Eglinton got funded, though the line may never actually reach the airport, anyway.

The odds of Eglinton and the Mississauga BRT meeting are pretty good shortly after both are open and running (2020+). It will be a fairly obvious network gap which is relatively cheap to fill; and 2 governments down the road after our upcoming austerity period.

If LRT is taken west to meet with the BRT then hitting the airport is a very cheap extension of that.


I'm not expecting funding for anything significant other than SOGR for transit between 2013 and 2020 unless the Liberals somehow implement a hail-mary of road tolls or a regional sales tax (other than what has already been announced as funded of course).

 

[scarberiankhatru]

The odds of Eglinton and the Mississauga BRT meeting are pretty good shortly after both are open and running (2020+). It will be a fairly obvious network gap which is relatively cheap to fill; and 2 governments down the road after our upcoming austerity period.

If LRT is taken west to meet with the BRT then hitting the airport is a very cheap extension of that.


I'm not expecting funding for anything significant other than SOGR for transit between 2013 and 2020 unless the Liberals somehow implement a hail-mary of road tolls or a regional sales tax (other than what has already been announced as funded of course).

Well, it is another 10-12km or so and several billion dollars to bring it all the way to the airport, so it's not a trivial piece of infrastructure. This is Toronto, after all...the odds don't always favour "this is obvious, therefore it'll get built soon." Eglinton as it is now is still a long line with multiple phasing options should additional segments of it be delayed and that could stretch the timeframe even further.

 

[Paleo]

The three extensions you mentioned would all be busier than Eglinton West. Eglinton East is another thing (especially once you dump half the SRT riders onto it), but the difference for Eglinton West is that there's nothing there. No jobs, no schools, no malls, few large concentrations of people, very little prospects for redevelopment, and maybe, what, 1,500 people per hour now on the bus? There's only so many people that will be diverted from other routes (and of course, no mention is ever made of GO integration for areas like Rexdale) and the 'airport market' is much smaller than it seems. But it's all moot because Eglinton got funded, though the line may never actually reach the airport, anyway.

1,500pph is roughly what the 85 and 190 add up to so...

 

[scarberiankhatru]

1,500pph is roughly what the 85 and 190 add up to so...

So? You listed three extensions, remember. I didn't generate the forecasts of the past few years, so take the issue up with them. Although, the 85+190 combo might run thorugh a lower modal share area than Eglinton West (more room to grow), and it also has, you know, stuff along it. The city is planning for almost 9000 people at Warden & Sheppard, for instance.

1,500 per hour seems pretty standard for Toronto, where most major arterial routes see 30,000+ riders a day. Eglinton West isn't special or significant. It's just funded.

 

[raquel]

Cold Clear Logic says that putting LRT on Shepperd is an act of racism by liberal whites. Also proposes that Harper should fund the subway extension in return for non union contracts and private sector involvement, and then wants a casino builder to put up a casino near Scarboro Town Center and fund part of the subway...

http://www.coldclearlogic.com/2012/03/19/unwashed-minority-masses-roar-in-toronto/

http://www.coldclearlogic.com/2012/03/19/waterfront-toronto-versus-scarborough-transit-and-casinos/

http://www.coldclearlogic.com/2012/03/18/harper-a-path-forward-for-toronto-transit/

 

[euges720]

Can someone explain to me how a LRT is different from a streetcar?

Now, I've been to practically every major city in Europe and every minor one in between, and I'm a fan of public transit. I've been on LRTs, streetcars, trams, anything in between. But pro-LRT people keep saying that a LRT is different from a streetcar, but I'm finding it hard to see the difference. A LRT will be much nicer, bigger, and more modern, and it will have its own lane... but that's what we have (dedicated lanes) on the Spadina and Lakeshore streetcars as well, except the cars are much older, of course. These two lines stop at every light, even though they're on a dedicated lane. So what's the difference?

Side note: I'm on the fence in the LRT/subway debate, if you can call it one. I would love it if Toronto had a subway network as extensive as NYC or London, but on the other hand, given the budget constraint and maximal utility, I see the benefit of a LRT plan, I possibly support it a bit more than a subway. But I really don't get it when people say LRTs are different from streetcars. Please explain your thought.

 

[a0th]

streetcars run in traffic for all or a portion of their route, lrt is separate from other traffic for the entirety of the line except in rare situations.

 

[raquel]

streetcars run in traffic for all or a portion of their route, lrt is separate from other traffic for the entirety of the line except in rare situations.

SO like Spadina line from Lakeshore to Bloor, except with more modern low floor vehicles.

It's ok to have some LRT but only after a big subway network is built. Look at London: 400 km subway network first, then a bit of LRT. Same with Paris, big 220 km subway first then throw in 30 km of LRT.