Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[AHK]

Got it now. The time cost of an extra GO station should be a lot more than 1 min. Those begemoth GO trains, with a single engine instead of self-propelling MUs, take a lot longer to accelerate or stop.

As has been mentioned previously, diesel versus electric has no bearing on stop times. The deceleration and stop times are the same, and are driven by passenger comfort considerations. The difference in time per stop is due only to the relative speeds of acceleration between relatively underpowered diesel trains versus an electric powered (electric locomotive or EMU) based service.

 

[Rainforest]

As has been mentioned previously, diesel versus electric has no bearing on stop times. The deceleration and stop times are the same, and are driven by passenger comfort considerations. The difference in time per stop is due only to the relative speeds of acceleration between relatively underpowered diesel trains versus an electric powered (electric locomotive or EMU) based service.

I wouldn't say passenger comfort is the blocker here, otherwise subway or LRT trains would not be able to stop / start quickly. Obviously, passenger comfort sets certain limits, but I am sure the technical limitations of the existing GO trains kick in well before the passenger comfort limits.

Diesel vs electric, probably doesn't matter much. A big difference comes from: a) The number of powered axles; an MU train gets accelerated by many powered wheels, while an engine-hauled one gets all acceleration from a much smaller number of engine's powered wheels; and b) The weight of cars; since GO train cars must adhere to the mainline collision strength requirements, they are heavier than subway cars of similar capacity.

 

[jje1000]

Has there been any reason to the measurement deviations?

TTC friend said one reason was because the concrete specifications were for summer, and then the pour was delayed to winter?

 

[smallspy]

Got it now. The time cost of an extra GO station should be a lot more than 1 min. Those begemoth GO trains, with a single engine instead of self-propelling MUs, take a lot longer to accelerate or stop.

It is. GO schedules about 2-and-a-bit to 3-and-a-bit minutes per stop, depending on the line's speed.

As has been mentioned previously, diesel versus electric has no bearing on stop times. The deceleration and stop times are the same, and are driven by passenger comfort considerations. The difference in time per stop is due only to the relative speeds of acceleration between relatively underpowered diesel trains versus an electric powered (electric locomotive or EMU) based service.

It's way more nuanced than that.

Below a certain speed, the type of power that the train is using - diesel or electric - is irrelevant and so any train so equipped will accelerate to the same speed. That speed is around 32mph. Above that speed you get into the regime where the diesel engine is no longer able to produce enough amps to supply the traction motors, but the overhead can - and so the acceleration rate of an electric powered train (be it multiple unit or locomotive) is now greater than a diesel. The problem is that at this point the train is already some distance down the track from the previous station and quickly approaching the next.

That rule applies pretty evenly regardless of whether we're talking about locomotive-hauled trains or multiple units.

What is important, however, is that any type of multiple unit-equipped train can accelerate more quickly up to that 32-ish mph faster than a loco-hauled train of the size that GO uses. Above that speed, there is again a change in the acceleration curve, and for the same reasons as above.

This is why in all scenarios simply swapping out electric locos for the diesels only results in minor time savings for local trains, but more major improvements for expresses. And why shortening the trains will allow for the much larger time savings wanted for the local trains without vastly changing the makeup of the fleet.

Dan

 

[jordanmkasla2009]

Has there been any reason to the measurement deviations?

TTC friend said one reason was because the concrete specifications were for summer, and then the pour was delayed to winter?

that reason is pretty negligible since a lot of the pours that happened in the winter were cured using heated tents that raised the ambient temperature to allow for proper curing of the concrete. Concrete shrinks as it cures and sometimes it will shrink more or less than anticipated which can can cause deviations in measurements. Some of those deviations are perfectly acceptable and others, like deviations in the concrete that secure the rails, can cause major issues over time or premature failures

 

[dowlingm]

Montreal, who we keep being told is better than Toronto at transit planning, proposing a 1.13km stop spacing tramway for East Montreal

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/montreal-eastern-train-rem-1.7110791

 

[nfitz]

Montreal, who we keep being told is better than Toronto at transit planning, proposing a 1.13km stop spacing tramway for East Montreal

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/montreal-eastern-train-rem-1.7110791

The only reason they might be better at transit planning, is because this must be at least the 7th different proposal they've made in the last half-century to get something to Montreal-Nord and Point-aux-Trembles. You can almost guarantee that this won't be built like this.

Like VIA Rail - the job there is proposing transport - not actually building it. Hmm, I wonder where VIA is headquartered ...

 

[ARG1]

Montreal, who we keep being told is better than Toronto at transit planning, proposing a 1.13km stop spacing tramway for East Montreal

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/montreal-eastern-train-rem-1.7110791

Ye no, after what happened over the last couple of months, I retract every positive thing I have ever said about Montreal/Quebec transit planning. Its quite clear the REM was a fluke.

 

[EllaW]

Just want to note this here as I haven't seen it mentioned by anyone else who lives near the above-ground portion of the line: Frequency of train testing appears to have increased dramatically in the last two weeks or so. I used to get very excited on the rare occasion of seeing one of the trains passing by, but recently, I typically see at least one, if not many more trains being run daily, at all different times of the day.

 

[evandyk]

I had lunch with someone who works at Crosslinx and they said they know the specific date of the start of service. Of course they wouldn't divulge even a hint of what it is.

 

[goodcitywhenfinished]

my money is on December 1st, finch west September 1st

 

[nfitz]

I had lunch with someone who works at Crosslinx and they said they know the specific date of the start of service. Of course they wouldn't divulge even a hint of what it is.

There's always a date in the schedule. You should ask him how many times it has changed.

 

[evandyk]

I did joke about that with him! And also taunted him by suggesting the Ontario line is working with more reliable partners But he said the date is for real and expected to be met.

 

[kotsy]

But he said the date is for real and expected to be met.

uhuh, and I'm sure all the other dates were believed to be the same.

 

[generalcanada]

Again more speculation, Metrolinx wont say anything until 3 months out. They dont want to be caught with their pants down again.

There was a guy a week or so ago who said "OMG they only increased 15% in 2 months" Thats what speculation gets you.