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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

ssiguy2 said:
I think in 30 years there will be no such thing as "The Crosstown". Due to Miller's "streetcar or nothing" mentality and ML very short-term thinking, the current Eglinton Line will simply not have the capacity needed to meet future demands.

The underground section from approx DM to Renforth will be one line with much higher frequencies, probably automated, and a stand-alone transit line. The at-grade section will be the other other line and in order to connect they will have a seamless cross-platform transfer. The at-grade section is not going to be able to offer the frequency and reliability of the underground section and automating the underground section would also lower operational costs. Also, the at-grade section is at the whim of local traffic and one accident brings the entire line to a screeching halt.

A transit line is only as strong as it's weakest point and the Eglinton has 10km of it but if they divide the line in 2 then at least half of the line has no weak points and could provide a lot more service to a lot more passengers. The future TTC map will have no reference to "Crosstown" but rather 2 different lines, one subway and one LRT showing an interchange station.
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Would this be in line with what is happening with the SRT?
 
ssiguy2 said:
I think in 30 years there will be no such thing as "The Crosstown". Due to Miller's "streetcar or nothing" mentality and ML very short-term thinking, the current Eglinton Line will simply not have the capacity needed to meet future demands.

The underground section from approx DM to Renforth will be one line with much higher frequencies, probably automated, and a stand-alone transit line. The at-grade section will be the other other line and in order to connect they will have a seamless cross-platform transfer. The at-grade section is not going to be able to offer the frequency and reliability of the underground section and automating the underground section would also lower operational costs. Also, the at-grade section is at the whim of local traffic and one accident brings the entire line to a screeching halt.

A transit line is only as strong as it's weakest point and the Eglinton has 10km of it but if they divide the line in 2 then at least half of the line has no weak points and could provide a lot more service to a lot more passengers. The future TTC map will have no reference to "Crosstown" but rather 2 different lines, one subway and one LRT showing an interchange station.
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they'll eventually have to rebuild the east section elevated like how it should have been build from day 1.

they should just start doing now in my opinion. open the line as planned. start rebuilding the east portion of the line. when that's completely close down the road at grade section.
 
sixrings said:
They’d rather rip up the line then to say put another LRT on Lawrence. I don’t understand.
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Half the world still thinks a couple of subways in Scarbrough is better than a network of LRTs. Let's get to (emptiness) Kennedy Station faster. Then again majority of the people are braindead or they would have been innovative millionaires.
 
Steve X said:
Half the world still thinks a couple of subways in Scarbrough is better than a network of LRTs. Let's get to (emptiness) Kennedy Station faster. Then again majority of the people are braindead or they would have been innovative millionaires.
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There’s somewhere in the middle of being bread dead and being the next tech billionaire. The average Scarborough resident was outraged when the RT went out of service. Yet they should have known that thing was dicey for a while now. Why would you want a network of LRTs when you could have a network of Subways on someone else’s dime. Maybe Scarborough residents are smarter than I’m giving them credit for. And for everyone who made fun of rob fords intelligence he managed to convince people these LRTs are basically streetcars, derailing years of planning for potentially a subway.
 
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mrgrieves said:
Agree w everything you said except for the 30 years part. Some high profile incidents shutting down the line will make headlines. This will be an issue on Day 1 and will need to be addressed sooner than later.
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I could see them banning left turns at Eglinton/Leslie. This will extend the grade-separated section to Don Mills.
 
Steve X said:
Half the world still thinks a couple of subways in Scarbrough is better than a network of LRTs. Let's get to (emptiness) Kennedy Station faster. Then again majority of the people are braindead or they would have been innovative millionaires.Yreds, let's uld it and
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hw621 said:
In 30 years it will be obsolete and scrapped like the SRT.
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The SRT was scrapped because Toronto decided decades ago to just let it rot.

Remember, Vancouver had the same rolling stock and technology as the SRT and it certainly had problems at first but, unlike Toronto, Vancouver invested in the system and worked with Bombardier to produce better vehicles....................Vancouver had a lemon and made lemonade. Now SkyTrain is fast, reliable, comfortable, efficient, and frequent........the hallmarks of great transit.

As far cold weather/snow/ice being a problem, they certainly were for SkyTrain at first but again Vancouver improved the system with vehicles better designed to deal with it, heated the tracks, and when really snowy simply took one of the older SRT type vehicles and ran them all night with automation {which something Toronto also didn't do} and it keeps the tracks clear. We just got 27 cm of snow and hade temperatures hitting -14C and while there were a few glitches, in general the system just kept going reliably.
 
ssiguy2 said:
The SRT was scrapped because Toronto decided decades ago to just let it rot.

Remember, Vancouver had the same rolling stock and technology as the SRT and it certainly had problems at first but, unlike Toronto, Vancouver invested in the system and worked with Bombardier to produce better vehicles....................Vancouver had a lemon and made lemonade. Now SkyTrain is fast, reliable, comfortable, efficient, and frequent........the hallmarks of great transit.

As far cold weather/snow/ice being a problem, they certainly were for SkyTrain at first but again Vancouver improved the system with vehicles better designed to deal with it, heated the tracks, and when really snowy simply took one of the older SRT type vehicles and ran them all night with automation {which something Toronto also didn't do} and it keeps the tracks clear. We just got 27 cm of snow and hade temperatures hitting -14C and while there were a few glitches, in general the system just kept going reliably.
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So where did we get the confidence Toronto won't let this rot as well?
 
Allandale25 said:
Doesn't the Province through Metrolinx have some ongoing role here, so it's not just the City of Toronto? Or did you mean "Toronto" more generally?
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He’s just being negative. The RT was a mistake. Toronto knew it. And eventually they accepted its death. Toronto has not let its Streetcar or subway system deteriorate to destruction so I don’t know how anyone can think this is a possibility. This is simply a fear mongering talking point.
 
hw621 said:
So where did we get the confidence Toronto won't let this rot as well?
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Your populist soundbites are heavy in conjecture and lacking in facts.

Remember that the first discussion of replacing the SRT was 19 years ago, back when the system was in fairly reasonable shape. The city had AMPLE time to complete whatever replacement project, but dragged their heels on it for 14 of those years. The LRT system will NOT be replaced by any other form of transit any time soon, the idea that it is a remotely feasible idea is nothing but a jilted foamer fantasy.
 
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T3G said:
Remember that the first discussion of replacing the SRT was 19 years ago, back when the system was in fairly reasonable shape. The city had AMPLE time to complete whatever replacement project, but dragged their heels on it for 14 of those years.
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Recall that the first year went fine - as less than a year later - pushing 18 years ago, the TTC approved the massive sum of $190 million to extend the existing stations, and modifying/updating the line to handle longer cars. And $170 million to replace and increase the rolling stock.

The city's failure to include this in the 2007 budget, and instead go down the LRT black hole was a huge mistake! So closer to 18 years than 14 years they've dragged their heels.

There's a reason the Scarborough subway thread here started in 2005!

I'd fully expect that 20 years from now Line 5 will be healthy. And perhaps even longer than the initial 20 km :)!
 
Is the platform at Science Centre Station long and wide enough to support the large loads for a split line cross platform transfer operations arrangement?
 
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