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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

Well, the tunneling drive was pretty much flawless. So the early arrival is good news. The project ends up with float that wasn't needed. One would expect that costs will be lower than they might have been. Whether ML gets the savings, or the contractor does, I don't know.

The extraction shaft may be a different contract than the tunnel itself. For that matter, the critical path may lie in how fast the conveyor and other utilities associated with the TBM's can be removed from the length of the tunnel. The TBM extraction itself may not be critical to the project schedule.

- Paul
 
cplchanb said:
One thing I don't really understand is why they are so afraid of concurrent activity on this job. They had an opportunity to dig stations as they tunnel through and construct track as they they progress west but nope....they must build one piece at a time... Very rigid mindset
Click to expand...

So you have a strong preference for the Amsterdam system then? 90% of the line has been fully complete (and had maintenance costs!) for years but Centraal (the only station that actually matters) is still underway.

Would you really have opened the Eglinton line as 2 separate segments neither of which connect to Yonge? If not, why bother constructing then maintaining anything else before it's needed?
 
cplchanb said:
and..........................the extraction shaft isnt even done yet.....talk about a scheduling blunder....
they couldve had a great opportunity to catch up on lost time but now theyll have to wait another few months just to start extracting......
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And it was a photo-op opportunity missed! I can't believe Metrolinx is so contemptuous of their political masters! /s
 
Zach6668 said:
Is the east tunnel "done"? Or is it just the boring? I don't know the specifics of that. They may still have to do tunnel work?
Click to expand...

There is a lot of work required to pour the concrete base for the track bed, so there is a flat floor in the (currently round) tunnel. Plus all the utilities, cabling, lighting, drainage, etc etc. There must be a fair bit of grouting required too, I don't know when that is done.

DonValleyRainbow said:
And it was a photo-op opportunity missed! I can't believe Metrolinx is so contemptuous of their political masters! /s
Click to expand...

I recall from the TYSSE that Youtube videos of the "actual" TBM breakthroughs surfaced well before any official photo-op breakthroughs happened. It's apparently commpn industry practice to seal up the end of the newly-finished tunnel end and stage a second 'breakthrough' for photo op purposes. Since the TBM crew will demobilise shortly, I bet lots of workers recorded the final breakthrough for their personal memories. There's not much ML can do to suppress the news that the TBM's are done....ML may have chosen to 'go with the flow' as word would leak out anyways.

Or - Maybe that's what the extra time in the schedule from now to late 2017 is for.....a never ending series of photo ops before the tunnel is handed back to the contractor to let work continue.

- Paul
 
Zach6668 said:
Is the east tunnel "done"? Or is it just the boring? I don't know the specifics of that. They may still have to do tunnel work?
Click to expand...

crs1026 said:
There is a lot of work required to pour the concrete base for the track bed, so there is a flat floor in the (currently round) tunnel. Plus all the utilities, cabling, lighting, drainage, etc etc. There must be a fair bit of grouting required too, I don't know when that is done.



I recall from the TYSSE that Youtube videos of the "actual" TBM breakthroughs surfaced well before any official photo-op breakthroughs happened. It's apparently commpn industry practice to seal up the end of the newly-finished tunnel end and stage a second 'breakthrough' for photo op purposes. Since the TBM crew will demobilise shortly, I bet lots of workers recorded the final breakthrough for their personal memories. There's not much ML can do to suppress the news that the TBM's are done....ML may have chosen to 'go with the flow' as word would leak out anyways.

Or - Maybe that's what the extra time in the schedule from now to late 2017 is for.....a never ending series of photo ops before the tunnel is handed back to the contractor to let work continue.

- Paul
Click to expand...

The East Tunnel is scheduled for completion in November 2017 and the West Tunnel in January 2017.

Is it normal for it to take so long to build what is necessary to extract the TBMs? Right now, we're talking about 15 months for extraction, which seems ridiculous to me
 
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TheTigerMaster said:
Is it normal for it to take so long to build what is necessary to extract the TBMs? Right now, we're talking about 15 months for extraction, which seems ridiculous to me
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The shaft is really just a pit, but the deeper it is the more costly and complicated it will be. I know authoritatively that on some other TBM projects, the alternative of just running the TBM into a side shaft and sealing it there was considered almost cost effective relative to reclaiming it at all.

- Paul
 
I wonder what they will do with these 4 machines once they are pulled out (provided they arent sealing a pair underground)
Whats the resale value of these machines in the used market?
 
TheTigerMaster said:
The other big news is that demolition has begun at the Eglinton bus terminals. This is the extraction point of the West TBM.
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The perplexing thing is that metrolinx had announced it was demoing this site back in the spring....why are they just starting right now......?
See how sometimes too much news is detrimental compared to no news at all
 
cplchanb said:
I wonder what they will do with these 4 machines once they are pulled out (provided they arent sealing a pair underground)
Whats the resale value of these machines in the used market?
Click to expand...
They were 4 for $64M total when new. As I recall, there was a buyback on them of around 20%, but now Caterpillar closed the Toronto-based subsidiary (Caterpillar Tunneling Canada Corp., formerly Lovat Inc.) and sold the intellectual property and production facility in Etobicoke to a Chinese tunneling construction company. They've rebranded it Lovsuns and hired back a lot of the engineering and plant staff. Lovsuns could buy them back, refurbish them and sell them to secondary markets....Turkey is currently a big market for refurbished machines. Machines are owned by Metrolinx (procured seperately to speed up the project at the front end), so it's their call.
Metrolinx could sit on them and then get Lovsuns to refurbish them for the next LRT tunnel project (Jane I suppose, but that's years off). Scarborough Subway Extension contemplates a single bore tunnel, so these would be too small.
 
cplchanb said:
I wonder what they will do with these 4 machines once they are pulled out (provided they arent sealing a pair underground)
Whats the resale value of these machines in the used market?
Click to expand...

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/07/23/ttc_tunnelboring_machine_deal_falls_through.html

The TBMs for the TYSSE were purchased new for $51.7 million in 2009 and were ready to be sold for $9.2 million; TTC said they were worth $15 million.

So resale value isn't huge. Enough, but not huge. And TBM technology progresses at a considerable rate, so keeping them for another project isn't worth it when you weigh it against the productivity of new machines.
 
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