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Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

If the Eglinton streetcar is grade-separated, with stations (not shelters) every 800+ metres, runs at high frequencies, etc., no one will care that they're not riding a subway, redevelopment will take place, and people will switch from their cars and ride the line in high numbers. Unfortunately, this is exactly what the city does not want to's hard to believe how much money may be thrown down the well here.
Subway, LRT, streetcar... it's all semantics. The Scarborough RT has been fully integrated onto subway maps and pictorials since day one. No one really cares or really considers it any different than a subway on the surface like the open sections of YUS nad BD. An Eglinton subway with BD like spacing is what most people would want so you're preaching to the choir here.
The Eglinton Subway could run on elevated guideway through the Golden Mile and save cut-and-cover costs, but this may not be conducive to future residential development.
^ if it's cut in Etobicoke and Scarborough, most of it wouldn't need to be covered...there's more than enough room.

People do know and care that the RT is different because it's overcrowded, it's falling apart, it's stations are wind-swept, leaky, and cold, it adds a useless transfer, and it has a penchant for not running properly in the winter.
TTC's Eglinton Crosstown Light Rail Transit web site is up.

Four open houses:

  • Thursday, August 14
    6:30pm to 9:00pm
    Forest Hill Memorial Arena, 340 Chaplin Cres.

  • Tuesday, August 19
    6:30pm to 9:00pm
    Leaside Arena, 1073 Millwood Rd.

  • Monday, August 25
    6:30pm to 9:00pm
    Humber Valley United Church, 76 Anglesey Blvd.

  • Wednesday, August 27
    6:30pm to 9:00pm
    Don Montgomery Community Recreation Centre
    (Formerly the Mid Scarborough Community Centre)
    2467 Eglinton Ave, E.
Stops 850 m apart? Well that's good news at least. Now just build it so it can easily be converted to subway in the future and I'll be happy.
From the Star:

Distance between LRT stops criticized
Planned Eglinton line's wait areas much farther apart than bus stops
Aug 09, 2008 04:30 AM
John Spears
City Hall Bureau

Passengers on the planned Eglinton light rapid transit line will have to walk farther to get to and from their stops, according to information to be presented at public consultation meetings this month.

Existing bus stops along Eglinton Ave. are about 300 metres apart, according to the TTC.

But the stops on the planned LRT line will average 850 metres apart for much of the route, according to the public consultation material, which was presented to City Hall staffers yesterday by TTC officials at a closed-door briefing.

That's similar to the distance between subway stops on the Bloor-Danforth subway line, which average 875 metres apart.

That's too far, says Councillor Michael Walker (Ward 22, St. Paul's). Eglinton runs across the top end of his ward, from Bayview Ave. to Spadina Rd.

"Is that going to make transit more friendly for commuters?" he asked in an interview. "I don't think so."

For example, there will be no stops between Bayview and Mount Pleasant Rd.; the existing buses stop several times. Farther west, there will be no stops between Dufferin St. and Caledonia Rd.

The advantage of having stops farther apart is faster service, the TTC material says. Existing bus service on Eglinton averages 16 to 18 kilometres per hour, while the Bloor-Danforth subway averages 32 kilometres an hour.

The Eglinton LRT won't be as fast as a subway. One person who was at the briefing said TTC officials estimate the speed of the Eglinton LRT at 22 kilometres an hour.

The LRT will use electric-powered streetcars that are about twice as long as Toronto's current streetcars.

The Eglinton LRT, part of Mayor David Miller's Transit City network, will replace buses on Eglinton from Kennedy subway station to Renforth Dr. The service could go as far as the airport.

The LRT will dive underground from Brentcliffe Rd. in the east to a point to be determined between Keele and Jane Sts. in the west.

"While the distance between stations is longer than the distance between (surface) stops, stations are more expensive to build," the material says. "Therefore the 850 metre distance is an acceptable compromise between cost and access."

On surface portions of the route, the distance between stops will average 500 metres.


The TTC wants to build seven new dedicated streetcar lines as part of a plan to bring rapid transit to more of Toronto. The lines will run from Steeles Ave. to the Bloor-Danforth subway, Kennedy station to Pearson airport, Yonge St. to Highway 27, Jane station to Steeles West station, Kennedy station to Malvern/Morningside, Don Mills station to Morningside Ave. and Union station /Exhibition to Long Branch.

Transit City light rail will cost $6 billion and will run on its own right-of-way, with a priority green at signals. That will make it swifter than streetcar lines that run in mixed traffic. It will require construction of 120 kilometres of rail line, with a planned capacity of 175 million riders a year.

Well, there goes the chance of a decent LRT system...
So the Eglinton LRT will only have 2/3 the speed of the Bloor-Danforth subway, despite the tunneled section and similar stop spacing? Nice...
So the Eglinton LRT will only have 2/3 the speed of the Bloor-Danforth subway, despite the tunneled section and similar stop spacing? Nice...

it would help to know if the speed estimate is for the surface or tunnelled pre-metro section -- or an average of the two.

in his latest post Steve Munro asks of the underground portion:
"The real question is what, if any, residual bus service will be operated over this portion of the route."

-same question applies were subway or RT technology chosen

-but decent bus service for those busy intermediate stops might eat into train ridership...

-eglinton is not sheppard, where you can better ignore all those old ladies in bungalows who like to ride a regular bus from the stop at the next street
i'm really hoping that the ttc doesn't cave on the stop spacing issue.
They must be including both the tunneled and surface sections in that average speed...can't streetcars get up to a pretty decent speed given long stretches of clear track? Even if they did manage to bunch, the whole bunch could get whisked along together through the tunnel.

Steve Munro can go on about a few old ladies, but why not acknowledge the vast majority that would benefit from the underground segment? There's no way to build a rapid transit line that picks every rider up at their front door and gets people where they're going in a reasonable timespan*.

*cue links to personal rapid transit gadgetrail lines.
An LRT is approximately 30m in length. A double car coupled train would put it to 60m. I have seen triple car trains, which would make them 90m. To fit the length of one of our subway platforms, a 5 car train would be needed or about 150 m.
The underground stations would probably require to have 2 exits. So if the stations are 90 or 100 m in length, to allow for a triple car train, one of the exits could take off some of the distance between stations. More, since the steps or escalators would take off some more.
22 km/h sounds pretty slow. The stop spacing of 850 m sounds fine, but 500 m on the surface I'm not too sure about. I would think 850 m would be fine on the surface as well.
I wouldn't rely too much on the "facts and figures" in the Star. Their articles frequently have illustrations that reveal they know very little about the project in question. 22-23 kph is the same figure the TTC is using for the Sheppard LRT, so how on earth would it apply to the whole of a line with a 10km subway and a large right of way in Etobicoke, both of which have wider stop spacing?