Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[crs1026]

Either

a) there is little to no truth to the rumours (I.e. the errors are much more trivial than described)

or

b) the media in this city is just as incompetent as metrolinx and doesn’t know how to leak the story of the year.

or
c) the ensuing litigation is causing all concerned to stay silent.... for now

and/or

d) the slab is currently intact but some data suggests it is suspect, or likely to fail before the contractual end of life, or we won't really know until a few more freeze/thaw cycles have passed....

- Paul

 

[smallspy]

Or e) after all of the previous delays everything is going through its final checks now, and the line will be opening soon.

If there had been some structural issue with the slab under Eglinton Station we would have heard about it by now. The TTC is really, really sensitive to issues like that. Remember Victoria Park? Or the Eglinton bus terminal? Or Islington? Or Bay?

Dan

 

[Richard White]

or Bay?

What happened at Bay?

 

[Bureaucromancer]

Either

a) there is little to no truth to the rumours (I.e. the errors are much more trivial than described)

or

b) the media in this city is just as incompetent as metrolinx and doesn’t know how to leak the story of the year.

Why not both?

But yeah, I’m quite sure this is nonsense of the variety far too common in railfan circles… someone mentions a foundation crack and suddenly everyone starts hearing complete demolition is the only fix. I mean seriously, has any tunnel project, anywhere in the world, had that kind of total demo required to fix something? It’s just not a thing.

 

[nfitz]

Crosstown wont open until 2025, Finch wont open until that lawsuit issue is settled ...

With construction complete, why would the lawsuit delay operation? That's not been a factor on Line 5.

Not would delaying operation be in either parties interest.

 

[generalcanada]

With construction complete, why would the lawsuit delay operation? That's not been a factor on Line 5.

Not would delaying operation be in either parties interest.

note that the crosstown guys also sued the ttc for the same exact reason back in May 2023
It quietly went away

 

[nfitz]

Have the past Crosstown legal issues gone away? It took years after TYSSE to be dealt with, didn't it.

Heck, TTC still has TYSSE as an open project.

 

[generalcanada]

Have the past Crosstown legal issues gone away? It took years after TYSSE to be dealt with, didn't it.

Heck, TTC still has TYSSE as an open project.

"gone away" as in never to be brought up again? definitely not. The whole contract was supposed to be structured so that legal issues dont happen until after project completion

 

[Amare]

With construction complete, why would the lawsuit delay operation? That's not been a factor on Line 5.

Not would delaying operation be in either parties interest.

Not necessarily the same from my understanding of it.

Finch West lawsuit is tied directly to an operation dispute with Mosaic claiming they are supposed to be operating the Finch West line, not the TTC. So if it's tied to an operational issue, it would most certainly impact when the line could begin operations. Of course Metrolinx could just ignore it, which wouldnt help their fight in court (unless the issue is settled out of court).

Toronto LRT woes: Finch West lawsuit underway, Eglinton Crosstown won’t open before 2025

Mosaic Transit Group filed a lawsuit against the Ontario government over talks involving the Toronto Transit Commission (TTC) and Metrolinx.

toronto.citynews.ca

Eglinton had a couple lawsuits, the latest was Crosslinx was claiming that the TTC was making numerous requests and inputs that go above and beyond their contractual responsibilities and it was causing the project timelines/costs to be affected. They were claiming that Metrolinx was not doing their "job" in reigning in the TTC and that was a breach of contract.

 

[nfitz]

Finch West lawsuit is tied directly to an operation dispute with Mosaic claiming they are supposed to be operating the Finch West line, not the TTC.

I believe you are wrong about that. The link doesn't mention anything about Mosaic operating the line.

From the article, it looks like the issue is about details in the operational agreement with TTC, which Mosaic wasn't involved in. I don't know what those are, but it almost sounds like there are areas where neither TTC nor Mosaic appear to be responsible for - but that's speculation.

Eglinton had a couple lawsuits, the latest was Crosslinx was claiming that the TTC was making numerous requests and inputs that go above and beyond their contractual responsibilities and it was causing the project timelines/costs to be affected. They were claiming that Metrolinx was not doing their "job" in reigning in the TTC and that was a breach of contract.

A lot more than a couple. I tried to find information on a particular one once, and I couldn't find it, because there were dozens if not hundreds of cases that Crosslinx was involved in.

 

[hawc]

All jokes aside, it really is amazing to me that none of the Canadian news organizations have uncovered what the delay is really about.

It's not a matter of national security. Nor are news orgs bound by legalities until something is before the courts.

Why have none of the news outlets come up with anything?

This feels like exactly the kind of thing Toronto Life or Macleans would do a big cover story on.

There are lots of people out there who know what it's delayed. No one will leak it?

 

[Amare]

I believe you are wrong about that. The link doesn't mention anything about Mosaic operating the line.

From the article, it looks like the issue is about details in the operational agreement with TTC, which Mosaic wasn't involved in. I don't know what those are, but it almost sounds like there are areas where neither TTC nor Mosaic appear to be responsible for - but that's speculation.

Part of the dispute (not the entire dispute) involves the TTC operating the line:

A legal challenge, launched in early August by Mosaic Transit Partners, claims Metrolinx “breached its contractual obligations” by entering into a separate operator contract with the TTC to run the line which, the consortium believes, is “inconsistent” with the original construction agreement signed with the province.


The core of the dispute:

At the heart of the dispute: the relationship between Mosaic, Metrolinx and the involvement of the TTC.

The lawsuit argues that when Metrolinx entered into a contract with the TTC to operate the Finch West LRT when it opens, it excluded the builders from those conversations. As a result, Mosaic argues, the TTC has been failing to fulfill key tasks that the operator has to undertake before the line can be complete — with no accountability measures in place

The agreement reached with the TTC, the lawsuit alleges, is “grossly deficient and inconsistent,” with the original contract Mosaic signed, and “imposes virtually no obligations upon the TTC.”

‘Delays, dysfunction and ballooning costs’: Finch West LRT enters court battle | Globalnews.ca

The legal challenge claims Metrolinx "breached its contractual obligations" by entering into a separate operator contract with the TTC to run the line.

globalnews.ca

 

[nfitz]

Part of the dispute (not the entire dispute) involves the TTC operating the line:

A legal challenge, launched in early August by Mosaic Transit Partners, claims Metrolinx “breached its contractual obligations” by entering into a separate operator contract with the TTC to run the line which, the consortium believes, is “inconsistent” with the original construction agreement signed with the province.


The core of the dispute:

At the heart of the dispute: the relationship between Mosaic, Metrolinx and the involvement of the TTC.

The lawsuit argues that when Metrolinx entered into a contract with the TTC to operate the Finch West LRT when it opens, it excluded the builders from those conversations. As a result, Mosaic argues, the TTC has been failing to fulfill key tasks that the operator has to undertake before the line can be complete — with no accountability measures in place

The agreement reached with the TTC, the lawsuit alleges, is “grossly deficient and inconsistent,” with the original contract Mosaic signed, and “imposes virtually no obligations upon the TTC.”

‘Delays, dysfunction and ballooning costs’: Finch West LRT enters court battle | Globalnews.ca

The legal challenge claims Metrolinx "breached its contractual obligations" by entering into a separate operator contract with the TTC to run the line.

globalnews.ca

The issue is the interrelationship between the TTC and Mosaic, once operations start (presumably in demo mode - aka test running).

Reading between the lines, I get the impression that (as with the case with Crosslinx) that Mosaic wasn't expecting to have to deal with TTC inspecting everything to their own standards. and applying their safety requirements.

I assume that Metrolinx's competency (or lack of it) in legal contracting will once again be their undoing with these cases.

 

[pmacpherson68]

This information is readily Googleable, even more so if you know which website to look for. From Steve Munro
View attachment 604732

Folks who today are able to just hop on Lawrence east or leaside busses at eglinton station are going to be pissed that they will have to take an additional LRT to just get to their bus.

 

[kaptrice]

All jokes aside, it really is amazing to me that none of the Canadian news organizations have uncovered what the delay is really about.

It's not a matter of national security. Nor are news orgs bound by legalities until something is before the courts.

Why have none of the news outlets come up with anything?

This feels like exactly the kind of thing Toronto Life or Macleans would do a big cover story on.

There are lots of people out there who know what it's delayed. No one will leak it?

Maybe this is minor, but there are some really mundane things. Systems integrations tests proceeded a lot slower than scheduled because of inefficient scheduling, etc.