Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[Rainforest]

I didn't think Ford's Sheppard plan was a viable option either, but that was the (unintended) beauty of it. The comparison became a heavily compromised approach to Sheppard (Transit City), vs. no Sheppard at all (Ford). I preferred the latter, because it made the Eglinton X-town a true continuous rapid transit line.

Sheppard will be a subject of a separate vote 2 weeks from now.

But note that Ford's plan also left Finch West out; now it is back on the table.

Queue-jump lanes on Finch would improve the speed, but would not increase capacity (and Ford's team did not have specific plans even for the queue-jump lanes).

In any case, I think what's going to happen now - if Transit City's Eglinton X-town get's built - is people from STC will take the line down to Kennedy and then switch to the Danforth subway, which will make TC's argument that ridership along Eglinton at grade will be low, a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It should be noted that Ford's solution would create another problem. Fully underground LRT would be a high-speed but relatively low-capacity line. If a lot of riders traveling from Scarborough choose to stay on ECLRT instead of switching to Danforth subway, there won't be enough capacity left for riders boarding at Don Mills.

Don Mills is a place where multiple passenger flows towards Yonge have to converge:
- Eglinton westbound
- Lawrence westbound (since Lawrence has a gap between Leslie and Bayview)
- Flemmington Park residents going towards Yonge
- Transfers from Don Mills bus towards Yonge / Eglinton.

If they decided to combine Eglinton with SRT, they have to do smart capacity management: run more frequent service from Don Mills towards Yonge, and between Kennedy and STC. In that case, the section between Don Mills and Kennedy can have lower frequency (say 5 min instead of 2.5 min), and street-median alignment is good enough.

 

[nfitz]

? Ford's plan would have given Scarborough a big leg up for rapid transit. The Transit City plan, although better than nothing, was a huge compromise, for not so rapid transit.

Transit City benefits fare more people in Scarborough than Ford's plan. Even the portions that were funded. Stintz's presentation at the council meeting made that very clear. For the city as a whole the benefit of Finch/Sheppard/SRT to Sheppard/Eglinton compared to just Eglinton/SRT is stunning. 23 million new riders annually vs 12 million. 46 million riders on the LRT lines compared to only 14 million on the Crosstown.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

She really does need someone better to make these PPTs for her - it's awful!

AoD

 

[Johnny Au]

She really does need someone better to make these PPTs for her - it's awful!

AoD

I agree that she should hire a person who knows how to make good PowerPoint presentations. However, the aesthetics of her PowerPoint presentation are among the least important things about her plans. Fortunately, the ideas presented on the presentation is much more important and these ideas are more than enough to persuade the mayor that Transit City is the way to go for the future of Toronto.

 

[BurlOak]

Don Mills is a place where multiple passenger flows towards Yonge have to converge:
- Eglinton westbound
- Lawrence westbound (since Lawrence has a gap between Leslie and Bayview)
- Flemmington Park residents going towards Yonge
- Transfers from Don Mills bus towards Yonge / Eglinton.

If they decided to combine Eglinton with SRT, they have to do smart capacity management: run more frequent service from Don Mills towards Yonge, and between Kennedy and STC. In that case, the section between Don Mills and Kennedy can have lower frequency (say 5 min instead of 2.5 min), and street-median alignment is good enough.

I agree that Don Mills is a major hub and source of transfers towards Yonge.

So why did Transit City have increased service from Laird/Brentcliffe eastward towards Yonge? The stretch from Brentcliffe to Don Mills would be so easy to place on a South Side alignment, but neither Miller nor Stintz considered this.

 

[Palma]

That is only HALF the debate.
It has always also been about what KIND of transit expansion is needed in Toronto. TC is far better transit but is by no means rapid. The station spacing is for local service..every 2 to 3 blocks with no over/underpasses. It will also have to wait for some lights as you cannot have signal priority all the time when trains are arriving in every 90 seconds {from both directions} and still have to contend with advanced left-hand turns.
If Toronto wants expansive rapid transit then it should built the LRT like that as opposed to a slow moving system.
It's funny but despite the true need of affordable transit the TC supporters have never come out and shown how TC will be any faster or more reliable than just running articulated buses along their own ROW using POP. Exactly the same makeup but will save monsterous amounts on the Finch and Sheppard and yet be just as fast and even more reliable as buses can manuever around potential accidents along the route.

Toronto needs transit for its local population not rapid. If people want rapid then they can take GO or lobby for more GO transit. Its been said over and over, the natural progression for transit is bus, then streetcar and then subway. What is so hard to grasp with this. Buses suck. Residential areas around streetcar lines are expensive. Thats says something. Same thing cannot be said with buses or those really ugly articulated buses. Its not about being faster but since all I hear about is how pack the Finch bus is well that means the next step is streetcars or should I said ROW LRT's. And they will be faster since they will not be mixed with CARS.

 

[Palma]

I thought the old Transit city plan had a Jane LRT but I guess thats not in the cards right now it seems.

 

[Rainforest]

I agree that Don Mills is a major hub and source of transfers towards Yonge.

So why did Transit City have increased service from Laird/Brentcliffe eastward towards Yonge? The stretch from Brentcliffe to Don Mills would be so easy to place on a South Side alignment, but neither Miller nor Stintz considered this.

Stintz cannot be blamed for that (yet). Alignment from Brentcliffe to Don Mills is a relatively fine-grained detail, and she had her hands full solving the conceptual issue.

I hope that they will give more consideration to this short but very important segment. It won't require a Council meeting, and can be solved between the TTC and Metrolinx staff.

Regarding Miller's team, yes they should have considered a South Side alignment from Brentcliffe to Don Mills, and perhaps a separate bridge, much earlier in the game.

 

[Rainforest]

I thought the old Transit city plan had a Jane LRT but I guess thats not in the cards right now it seems.

Not in the cards right now. Jane LRT might make sense if built north of Eglinton and operated as a branch of Eglinton. But there exists a bunch of much higher priorities, including Eglinton to the airport and Finch West from Keele to Yonge.

 

[Palma]

I always thought the Finch LRT was going to start at Yonge and go west from there (which makes sense to me) but was surprise reading on here its going to start in the west end and come east. I don;t see why Eglinton to the airport is higher priority than Jane LRT. I would think more people travel on jane than would be taking Eglinton to go to the airport. Besides are they not building that rail link from Union Station to the airport? So then a 2nd line to the airport is not really needed ahead of other lines

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I always thought the Finch LRT was going to start at Yonge and go west from there (which makes sense to me) but was surprise reading on here its going to start in the west end and come east. I don;t see why Eglinton to the airport is higher priority than Jane LRT. I would think more people travel on jane than would be taking Eglinton to go to the airport. Besides are they not building that rail link from Union Station to the airport? So then a 2nd line to the airport is not really needed ahead of other lines

That is 11 dollars a ride palma. Very Expensive.

 

[Palma]

Guess its time for distance based fares next. I can only imagine the uproar over this.

 

[11th]

But there exists a bunch of much higher priorities, including Eglinton to the airport and Finch West from Keele to Yonge.

Out of curiosity, how is Finch West from Keele to Yonge a priority? Nothing much in terms of density and development potential, and those heading for downtown should transfer to Spadina at Finch West station.

 

[11th]

Toronto needs transit for its local population not rapid. If people want rapid then they can take GO or lobby for more GO transit.

You know that's just one side of the opinion. Who's to say the locals of Toronto doesn't need/want rapid? TTC doesn't have to money to go "rapid", that's why the LRT (Transit City version) was even considered. It's not even on the radar prior to Transit City.

 

[bobbob911]

Is there a document online (original Transit City doc I suppose) that shows the proposed design for the above ground stops? I'm curious to see if they are proposed to be covered, heated, etc. Or if they are just going to me more like Spadina/St. Clair

Thanks