Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[Eug]

Majority want Eglinton LRT built underground

Scarborough Section of Eglinton LRT Underground / Above-ground Preference

'Do you think that the Scarborough section of the Eglinton light rail transit line should be built above ground in its own right of way in the middle of the road like the St. Clair streetcar, or should it be built below ground like a subway? If it was built above-ground, Eglinton Avenue would be reduced to four lanes in order to accommodate the transit line right of way.'

Heh. They worded the question very well to suit their bias. Factually correct though.

However, the really interesting part was that of those who dislike Ford, 42% still want it built underground. Furthermore, it was really the central Toronto group who were more inclined to have Scarborough at grade, which makes sense because in reality they don't care, as they already have their central portion underground.

 

[k10ery]

Obviously I disagree. She's likely toast IMO.
The left in me sees her as insincere and a conniving opportunist, while the right in me sees her as insincere and a conniving opportunist.

It's a good day when your split personalities are agreeing on something, eh?

 

[sixrings]

Majority want Eglinton LRT built underground

http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/914333/majority-want-eglinton-lrt-built-underground

Preference for subway highest among Torontonians living in Scarborough & North York, lowest downtown

TORONTO, Feb. 1, 2012 /CNW/ - In a recent survey conducted by Forum Research among Toronto residents aged 18 years or older, it was found that a majority of residents prefer that the Scarborough section of the Eglinton LRT line be built underground (55%; compared to 45% who would prefer it be built above ground). Residents living in Scarborough, North York, and Etobicoke / York were significantly more likely than those living in the former City of Toronto / East York to prefer the idea of building underground (63%, 62%, 59% respectively; compared to 41%). It was also found that support for taking the Scarborough section of the LRT underground was significantly higher among residents who currently approve of the job Rob Ford is doing as Mayor of Toronto (75%; compared to 42% of those who disapprove).

"With the recent controversy regarding Councillor Mihevc's release of a legal opinion questioning Mayor Ford's authority to cancel Transit City, the question of what residents want has come to the forefront," said Forum Research president Dr. Lorne Bozinoff. "Based on this data, Mayor Ford has the support of a majority of residents for building the Scarborough portion of the Eglinton LRT underground, particularly among those residents living in Scarborough and North York."

Methodology

The poll was conducted by Forum Research with the results based on an interactive voice response telephone survey of 1,560 randomly selected Toronto residents aged 18 or older. The poll was conducted on January 30th to 31st, 2012.

Results based on the total sample are considered accurate +/- 2.4%, 19 times out of 20. Subsample results will be less accurate. Margins of error for subsample (such as age, gender) results are available at www.forumresearch.com/samplestim.asp.

Where appropriate, the data has been statistically weighted to ensure that the sample reflects the actual population according to the latest Census data.

This research is not necessarily predictive of future outcomes, but rather, captures opinion at one point in time. Forum Research conducted this poll as a public service and to demonstrate our survey research capabilities.

With offices across Canada and around the world, 100% Canadian-owned Forum Research is one of the country's leading survey research firms.

Scarborough Section of Eglinton LRT Underground / Above-ground Preference

'Do you think that the Scarborough section of the Eglinton light rail transit line should be built above ground in its own right of way in the middle of the road like the St. Clair streetcar, or should it be built below ground like a subway? If it was built above-ground, Eglinton Avenue would be reduced to four lanes in order to accommodate the transit line right of way.'

Of course the people farthest from the core want the fastest transit way to get there! Why wouldnt they want to save time getting downtown. Are these residents ok with fare by distance as well? Does such a small majority (10% differential) justify the extra costs of subway? (elevators, escalators, booth people, cleaning, tunneling, station construction)

At some point wants have to be compared to finances. I want a mansion but I live in a semi. I want a ferrari but own a fiat. I want to vacation in europe but I roadtrip to close by cities.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

What I am really curious is the impact of changing that question to state explicitly funds saved from putting that section on the ground goes to extending Sheppard to Consumers and for building a BRT on Finch.

AoD

 

[M II A II R II K]

Even if the majority wants something they're most likely not informed about technicalities and think in black and white terms where it's either a subway or a bus.

 

[sixrings]

Heh. They worded the question very well to suit their bias. Factually correct though.

However, the really interesting part was that of those who dislike Ford, 42% still want it built underground. Furthermore, it was really the central Toronto group who were more inclined to have Scarborough at grade, which makes sense because in reality they don't care, as they already have their central portion underground.

All sorts of people HATE Rob Ford but LOVE subways.

 

[Eug]

Even if the majority wants something they're most likely not informed about technicalities and think in black and white terms where it's either a subway or a bus.

That's not the point. The point is the left on council tried to out-maneuver the right (which is the right's own fault because they delayed everything for so long), but then the right reacted lightning fast and out-maneuvered the left in some ways.

The battle ain't over yet, but meanwhile Stintz comes out of this looking like a complete has-been and a total amateur, whereas she was trying to become the next mayor.

 

[Tulse]

'Do you think that the Scarborough section of the Eglinton light rail transit line should be built above ground in its own right of way in the middle of the road like the St. Clair streetcar, or should it be built below ground like a subway? If it was built above-ground, Eglinton Avenue would be reduced to four lanes in order to accommodate the transit line right of way.'

'And if was built below ground, it would cost billions more and prevent expansion of transit on Finch and Sheppard.' That would have been the honest way to frame it.

Again they used "like the St. Clair streetcar".
It wouldn't be anything like the St. Clair streetcar!

St. Clair doesn't even have a "streetcar" -- it has an LRT.

And now that construction is finished, it's a great addition. And the construction issues experienced on St. Clair won't impact the wider and less pedestrianized Eglinton east.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Eug:

I don't know about the out-maneuvered part - the status quo has now turned into a definitive confrontation necessitated by the council vote, and the battleground isn't as friendly as it would have been in 1 AF.

Tulse:

Actually, the choice of mentioning St. Clair is in itself interesting - consider the bad rep and media exposure it had.

AoD

 

[sixrings]

well I didnt like Stintz plan either... I hope we simply go back to Transit City with proper road spacing. If the TTC cant figure that out email me and I will be happy to take 10 minutes of time to figure out what they couldnt in the last 5 years.

 

[JoeParez]

St. Clair doesn't even have a "streetcar" -- it has an LRT.

And now that construction is finished, it's a great addition. And the construction issues experienced on St. Clair won't impact the wider and less pedestrianized Eglinton east.

I know what you mean Tulse - but in everyone's mind when the phrase "St. Clair Streetcar" is said, they don't think of the positive impact that it has on the community now (because no one talks about it - in the media/press/social situations it's all about negativity) they think of the "mess" during construction.

edit:

Clarified by AoD.

 

[Tulse]

the choice of mentioning St. Clair is in itself interesting - consider the bad rep and media exposure it had.

Yep, they could have just as easily said, "like the Spadina LRT", which is probably a more accurate comparison, given that Eglinton is closer in width to what Spadina was. I don't know of anyone who now complains about the Spadina LRT.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Tulse:

I wouldn't use that comparator either - considering the really tight spacing of stops, which is nothing like the proposed section.

AoD

 

[voxpopulicosmicum]

Far from it. After tonight, I'd lay odds on her being in the Mayor's chair in 2014. 3 to 1 against maybe, but she's in the running now.

She told the media she believed she had Doug Ford on board before she spoke. Sounds fishy to me though. I think she just decided to leave Ford Nation while the getting is good.

+1

 

[Tulse]

I wouldn't use that comparator either - considering the really tight spacing of stops, which is nothing like the proposed section.

True, but if one feels the need to point to an extant example, the Spadina LRT is closer to what Eglinton would be like than St. Clair.

I really find it interesting that, in all the talk about the virtues and vices of LRTs, no one seems to bring up either Spadina or Harbourfront, which are arguably extremely successful.