Toronto Crosstown LRT | ?m | ?s | Metrolinx | Arcadis

[nfitz]

Toronto/Ontario has studied line after line and canceled them all one after another. (Queens Streetcar Subway, GO ALRT, Hamilton RT, etc)

My point is how many different big projects we are building - let alone planning. As impressive as REM is - as far as I know, it's the only major project underway in Montreal - with the next biggest being the Orange Line yard expansion north of Cote Vertu, and perhaps the new pedestrian tunnel at Vendome station - or have they both finished now? Did I forget something (other than the "REM East" that's not finalized yet ... and perhaps the 5 station Blue line extension is finally a go? - I can't keep track after 40 years of announcements).

The Montreal Metro Blue Line extension only proves my point: they didn't cut the red tape for it as they did for the REM and now it is delayed because they cant expropriate the land.

They literally had it on the Metro map (to Montreal Nord!) in the early 1980s, with the same black dots as the Orange Line where they put on white circular stickers as new stations opened!

The GO Expansion/RER is being built ad hoc and piecemeal and will take decades to complete. And contracts haven't been signed yet to complete it. Unlike the REM which is a turnkey all-in-one project that has a set defined deadline.

Piecemeal yes, ad hoc no (well not much). Like anything else, it will never be done - they are still opening Tube stations in London after 150 years! But much of the work to get 5 of the 7 lines to RER should be finished within the decade. My understanding is they intend to announce the main contract before the election; the RFP is completed, and I've heard rumblings they are negotiating with their first choice.

The Crosstown LRT is just a tram.

A 60-metre long (expandable to 90-metre) tram? Is the Edmonton LRT also just a tram? What about the Gold and Blue lines in Los Angeles?

Waterfront East LRT has a target date and no funding

Mostly because of the complexities of assigning Waterfront Toronto money. It's seems a bit biased though to ignore that TTC has funded the major expansions of Queens Quay and Union underground streetcar platforms.

St.George expansion is not on any of the books or plans.

I'm not sure where you are hearing that. Not only is it in the latest TTC capital budget - it's (too my surprise!) funded - along with the expansion of King station.

And the exit and mezzanine plans are to add disability and fire code compliance because there is a deadline by law.

The current dozen or so under-construction projects - yes (though the work at College, at least, exceeds what is required for either accessibility or second exit).

 

[ARG1]

A 60-metre long (expandable to 90-metre) tram? Is the Edmonton LRT also just a tram? What about the Gold and Blue lines in Los Angeles?

Edmonton LRT doesn't run on streets, and as for the LA Blue and Gold Lines, yes they are, especially the southern section of the Gold Line.

 

[Cobra]

A 60-metre long (expandable to 90-metre) tram?

East of Don Mills it is... a very very expansive one

 

[Bordercollie]

Wi-Fi on a moving vehicle like a train is basically rebroadcasting a cellular signal, since they obviously cannot connect a fibre optic cable to a moving train. So whenever they get Wi-Fi on the trains, cell service should be possible as well. Also even in countries with advanced connectivity on their trains, the wifi never works reliably, so I wouldn’t hold out hope for the TTC

That's not true. I was able to reliably use the WIFI on transit buses and subways in other countries. And it's much better than it is here.

Considering that the WIFI in the stations don't even work half the time.

 

[trtcttc]

That's not true. I was able to reliably use the WIFI on transit buses and subways in other countries. And it's much better than it is here.

Considering that the WIFI in the stations don't even work half the time.

And chances are you had reception on those busses and subways. My point was that train Wi-Fi is rebroadcasting a cell signal and a cell signal is usually more reliable since it’s a direct connection vs cell tower-Wi-Fi router- your device . And Wi-Fi just isn’t a great protocol when there’s lots of devices and interference from other signals

 

[trtcttc]

Edmonton LRT doesn't run on streets, and as for the LA Blue and Gold Lines, yes they are, especially the southern section of the Gold Line.

Pretty sure most of the cost and construction time is for the underground sections. Finch West is much more representative of an LRT and it’s construction time and cost is significantly lower

 

[NoahB]

My point is how many different big projects we are building - let alone planning. As impressive as REM is - as far as I know, it's the only major project underway in Montreal - with the next biggest being the Orange Line yard expansion north of Cote Vertu, and perhaps the new pedestrian tunnel at Vendome station - or have they both finished now? Did I forget something (other than the "REM East" that's not finalized yet ... and perhaps the 5 station Blue line extension is finally a go? - I can't keep track after 40 years of announcements).

They literally had it on the Metro map (to Montreal Nord!) in the early 1980s, with the same black dots as the Orange Line where they put on white circular stickers as new stations opened!

Piecemeal yes, ad hoc no (well not much). Like anything else, it will never be done - they are still opening Tube stations in London after 150 years! But much of the work to get 5 of the 7 lines to RER should be finished within the decade. My understanding is they intend to announce the main contract before the election; the RFP is completed, and I've heard rumblings they are negotiating with their first choice.

A 60-metre long (expandable to 90-metre) tram? Is the Edmonton LRT also just a tram? What about the Gold and Blue lines in Los Angeles?

Mostly because of the complexities of assigning Waterfront Toronto money. It's seems a bit biased though to ignore that TTC has funded the major expansions of Queens Quay and Union underground streetcar platforms.

I'm not sure where you are hearing that. Not only is it in the latest TTC capital budget - it's (too my surprise!) funded - along with the expansion of King station.

The current dozen or so under-construction projects - yes (though the work at College, at least, exceeds what is required for either accessibility or second exit).

I stand corrected on the St. George expansion.

My point is how many different big projects we are building - let alone planning. As impressive as REM is - as far as I know, it's the only major project underway in Montreal - with the next biggest being the Orange Line yard expansion north of Cote Vertu, and perhaps the new pedestrian tunnel at Vendome station - or have they both finished now? Did I forget something (other than the "REM East" that's not finalized yet ... and perhaps the 5 station Blue line extension is finally a go? - I can't keep track after 40 years of announcements).

They literally had it on the Metro map (to Montreal Nord!) in the early 1980s, with the same black dots as the Orange Line where they put on white circular stickers as new stations opened!

Having it on the map only shows their confidence but necessarily that it would happen. And it did not happen. The 5 station expansion of the blue line was a 'go' until they failed to buy the parking lot of a mall at the end of the line and cost ballooned from 4.5 to 6B. (last I've heard)

Piecemeal yes, ad hoc no (well not much). Like anything else, it will never be done - they are still opening Tube stations in London after 150 years! But much of the work to get 5 of the 7 lines to RER should be finished within the decade. My understanding is they intend to announce the main contract before the election; the RFP is completed, and I've heard rumblings they are negotiating with their first choice.

That is fair enough. My point is that it will take them decades from the Dalton McGuinty 2011 election promise to completion in the late 2020s. I guess the Lakesure line counts as an early win... But we got 6 story parking lots added to stations. Montreal got platform screen doors and AC.

A 60-metre long (expandable to 90-metre) tram? Is the Edmonton LRT also just a tram? What about the Gold and Blue lines in Los Angeles?

It's true that most trams are single-car trains that and are shorter. But that won't matter when the passenger is waiting for left car signals and car crashes to clear up.
Also, fun to know: TTC tested a 6-car CLRV train in 1982, that's 91m long.

Mostly because of the complexities of assigning Waterfront Toronto money. It's seems a bit biased though to ignore that TTC has funded the major expansions of Queens Quay and Union underground streetcar platforms.

Fair enough.

 

[superelevation]

Pretty sure most of the cost and construction time is for the underground sections. Finch West is much more representative of an LRT and it’s construction time and cost is significantly lower

Finch West is still VERY expensive

 

[ARG1]

Pretty sure most of the cost and construction time is for the underground sections. Finch West is much more representative of an LRT and it’s construction time and cost is significantly lower

Well I didn't really bring up costs at all in that post, it was more of a terminology thing. The line between LRT/Streetcar/Tram is incredibly blurry. LRT specifically has a problem since because it refers to a type of vehicle rather than a type of service - its name can mean literally anything from a light metro (Ottawa) to a literal streetcar (Finch West). As far as I'm concerned, the LRT lines we're building in the GTHA are basically streetcars, and with the exception of the Crosstown are basically no different from say the 510 Spadina or the 512 St. Clair

 

[Deadpool X]

I agree. A grade separated LRT line is like a metro and at grade line in the middle of the road is no better than streetcar.

 

[NoahB]

Trains are just a bunch of components and features. add them all together or strip some of them off and you get to call them different things. Things like local norms and history affect it too.

So talking about what to call it is less useful than what component it has and how it operates.

Remember when the 510 Spadina was actually called the Harbourfront LRT? (I dont, wasn't born yet).
Apparently, people imagined LRTs being like the RT and Skytrain so the term was dropped.

 

[nfitz]

Edmonton LRT doesn't run on streets

Not all of it - but how is this radically different than the surface sections of the Eglinton line?

... and as for the LA Blue and Gold Lines, yes they are, especially the southern section of the Gold Line.

I'm not sure why you need to invent new terminology. I guess if the LA lines (and Edmonton) are trams, then Dundas is a streetcar.

 

[nfitz]

My point is that it will take them decades from the Dalton McGuinty 2011 election promise to completion in the late 2020s.

As opposed the the 1960s (and 1970s, and 1980s) Jean Drapeau election promises? It's not like he wasn't around to keep them! (he probably made some 1950s promises too that I don't remember!)

Though to be fair, he did deliver an awful lot - and they haven't started digging any new Metro stations in Montreal since he retired (other than the 3rd platform at Henri-Bourassa)[/QUOTE]

 

[ARG1]

Not all of it - but how is this radically different than the surface sections of the Eglinton line?
View attachment 373311

Everytime I am reminded that the Metro Line exists - I get depressed.

However, what this picture is missing is the fact that this is separated by boom gates. Left turns are banned - cars driving along 105 St can't cross the tracks, and the cross street, well has boom gates that prevent access, meaning that it is absolute priority for the LRT - no having to ever stop at Red lights, or rely on some unreliable TSP. It is still trying to keep to a more Regional Rail/S-Bahn style design seen on the rest of the Capital Line (even if a lot of the design choices were very stupid).

I'm not sure why you need to invent new terminology. I guess if the LA lines (and Edmonton) are trams, then Dundas is a streetcar.

Well... yes?

Although I can't say why you're saying I'm inventing new terminology. The term "LRT" was literally only created to sell streetcars to a public that in the 80s saw streetcars as this old fashioned and outdated mode - to make it seem "new" and "hip". It was literally creating new terminology for the sake of rebranding.

 

[nfitz]

Everytime I am reminded that the Metro Line exists - I get depressed.

However, what this picture is missing is the fact that this is separated by boom gates. Left turns are banned - cars driving along 105 St can't cross the tracks, and the cross street, well has boom gates that prevent access, meaning that it is absolute priority for the LRT - no having to ever stop at Red lights, or rely on some unreliable TSP. It is still trying to keep to a more Regional Rail/S-Bahn style design seen on the rest of the Capital Line (even if a lot of the design choices were very stupid).

True - and similar on Eglinton would help.