ganjavih
Senior Member
Wow, comparing the "out of scaleness" of Rackhouse M to the new condos has just taken this argument to a new level of silliness.
syn
Senior Member
That's exactly why I object to Cityscape being allowed to bulldoze it to the ground. A smaller building would be a loss, but this is a huge piece of the Distillery. Every effort should be made to adapt and rejuvenate the building.
Now you sound like Hume. I don't think anyone has a problem with height...it's extreme height in this location. It's this particular project.
As for regenerating the buildings, that isn't happening. They're tearing it down, which has been pointed out many, many times.
People have been discussing "scale" from the beginning of the thread.
As for height...8-12 storey's would do it for me. 50 and 40 storey towers simply dropped in the middle of the District are unacceptable.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
Do you really think that a parking garage is a better use for that distillery site than a nationally historic building that was used as part of that distillery?
syn
Senior Member
But that isn't what they're doing. They're tearing the building down. Using token bricks in the base doesn't change that fact. I seriously doubt Rackhouse M will have enough leftover bricks to accomodate the 50 storey tower, either.
One of the main appeals of the District, perhaps the #1 appeal for most, is the built history they can experience first hand while shopping, etc.
By tearing down buildings and constructing ones that are completely out of scale with what's there, they're compromising that historic built form.
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
The due process was undertaken and, as a result, the Pure Spirit building and podium ( including parking ) is now under construction. The same dance between developer and the City, with public meetings that local residents have attended, is underway concerning the new buildings that are proposed. None of this is an example of, as syn puts it, developers being able to "build whatever they'd like".
Rack House 'M' is built on a different scale from the adjacent buildings, and in size it could reasonably be compared to the mass of a condo tower. It is quite obvious that, when it was built, no attempt was made to integrate it, visually, with those other buildings. It's replacement is designed to correct that error and bring new life to a derelict, windowless shell.
Rack House 'M' is built on a different scale from the adjacent buildings, and in size it could reasonably be compared to the mass of a condo tower. It is quite obvious that, when it was built, no attempt was made to integrate it, visually, with those other buildings. It's replacement is designed to correct that error and bring new life to a derelict, windowless shell.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
Yes, but the rack house is not out of scale with the historic district, it is part of the historic district. It's not "bringing new life" to the historic building, it is demolishing the historic building -- reducing it to a pile of rubble. Then, in an apologetic gesture that merely rubs in the fact that what we're losing is indeed significant, they're going to try to "re-use" some of that rubble as a historic veneer on a new parking garage.
I was a little bit hesitant with Pure Spirit (especially after I discovered that the podium would be a massive above-ground parking garage), but I was willing to accept it. I also have nothing against big, modern development on the parking lot at the southeast edge of the distillery property. I cannot, however, accept the demolition of an integral component of a National Historic district for a parking garage podium.
syn
Senior Member
You could argue that due process was taken for the vast majority of Toronto's built history lost to the wrecking ball...that doesn't mean it was a good idea to do so.
It's been argued quite a few times in this thread that the developers invested in the Distillery so they should have the right to earn a profit. It appears that if building a 50-storey tower in the middle is the price to pay, so be it. They're definitely getting to build whatever they'd like.
Rack House M isn't 50 storeys, or 40 storeys for that matter.
You state that Rack House M is of a different scale than the other buildings. How on earth are 50 and 40 storey condos going to "correct that error"?
Urban Shocker
Doyenne
syn, they're not planning to clad the Clear Spirit tower in the bricks from Rack House 'M'. But there are certainly enough bricks to do so, given the size of the thing. Have you been to the Distillery District and actually seen your beloved Rack House? It's huge! It will be reborn, along lines taken by Pure Spirit, with housing and retail - though not as the "parking garage podium" that scaremongering unimaginative2 repeatedly tells us about. The brick and glass podium building is five floors and will contain residences, as the promotional bumf explains and the renderings show. And the brick podium of Pure Spirit is not, as unimaginative2 imagines, "a massive above-ground parking garage" either, but housing, retail and parking.
alklay: 5 1/2 storeys
syn: 8 to 12 storeys.
Do I hear any more bids?
alklay: 5 1/2 storeys
syn: 8 to 12 storeys.
Do I hear any more bids?
adma
Superstar
In all this time, nobody's actually come forward to describe what RH"M" is. It's that tall brick addition from the 1920s that used to have the Gooderham sign on top, now has conventional billboards on top and urls on the sides. It's the last, and largest, and most utilitarian of the significant built parts of the original G&W complex.
It's probably a given that more leeway would have been given to its treatment than other elements--though had G&W become an institutional rather than commercially-driven complex, it could have made a fine archival storage facility, if one wanted to take an optimum William Morris "no-scrape" approach even to it...
It's probably a given that more leeway would have been given to its treatment than other elements--though had G&W become an institutional rather than commercially-driven complex, it could have made a fine archival storage facility, if one wanted to take an optimum William Morris "no-scrape" approach even to it...
Andrew3D
Active Member
H
Hydrogen
Guest
According to the Clear Spirit website, the podium will consist of residential units from the second to fifth floors. I would assume that the first floor will consist of either retail, condo ammenities or the enormous lobby shown on the website ( a lobby with pillars featuring a sailing motif so as not to forget the direct relationship between schooners and booze).
Above that will tower the tower. It shall lord over all from where the unphotogenic, post-due-process rackhouse once stood.
Will all those new residents bring a damper to the courtyards below?
Above that will tower the tower. It shall lord over all from where the unphotogenic, post-due-process rackhouse once stood.
Will all those new residents bring a damper to the courtyards below?
alklay
Senior Member
So let me get this straight: we are knocking something down which is apparently 'out of scale' with the rest of the historic district (which is bad and therefore a justification for knocking it down) and replacing it with something even more out of scale (which is good). Riiiiight.
H
Hydrogen
Guest
I think you've got it.
Just think of the new pillars with the sailing motif. Fits right in.
Just think of the new pillars with the sailing motif. Fits right in.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
It will be reborn? Yeah, the same way the Heaven's Gate cult was reborn.
Jayomatic
Active Member
I think something within double the height should be fine. Maybe something around 7-14 floors. You can find many excellent examples of mid rises just down the street in another historic district at Jarvis & King.