Toronto CityPlace: Canoe Landing Community Centre & Schools | 15.85m | 3s | City of Toronto | ZAS Architects

[RobbieD]

I'm not being PC, but I am hostile to these kinds of "concerns" as normally expressed, since I see them as arising largely from prejudice and ignorance.

OK, for the sake of argument, how would you like to live on Driftwood Ave in the Jane and Finch area? No? Are you now prejudiced and ignorant?

Yes, I realize I'm quoting an extreme case, but the logic remains the same. Though I don't have any data to prove this, I'm willing to bet that there is a positive correlation between high-crime (the violent type, not corporate espionage) areas of the city and placement of community housing.

 

[AKS]

Maybe because it's public housing? Sorry, just had to state the obvious concern which I realize isn't very PC, but a reality nonetheless. Not sure why everyone is tip-towing around the issue. Sure, there are issues of views, traffic, etc., but this is the main one, in my opinion. As a previous CP resident, I'm still a member of the Facebook groups, and this is what people are saying/discussing.

People paid top dollar for their units in these buildings (shitty quality aside) and simply don't want to live beside "those type of people" who occupy community housing buildings. Call it what you want - snobbery, NIMBYism, etc - but it exists, and I can't see it not being an issue for some potential buyers in the future.

It's hard to avoid. There's TCHC houses spread throughout the city. For those that paid $700+ psf for festival tower? There's a safe house of sorts for the bums on the streets to stay. Would that degrade the area's prices? The prices in that area aren't cheap at all. It's even most expensive than CP. The government is trying to mix the low and medium/high income people together. So where ever you move, the city might just decide to add one near you.

 

[RobbieD]

Hey, Toronto deals with this all the time. People in Rosedale live just over the bridge from people in St. Jamestown, people in Cabbagetown live right beside people in Regent Park, as well as London on the Esplanade across from TCHC buildings, then Market Wharf, right across from a co-op, as well as that new Distillery condo across from TCHC co-ops and many, many others. It happens all over Toronto and it doesn't seem to make all that much difference, so why should CP be any different? Hell, even Yorkville has large TCHC buildings. (Asquith Park) It's all over Toronto.

I agree...it shouldn't be a HUGE concern, but it is a concern for people...that's all I'm saying, and I don't think one should be immediately labeled as a bad person for thinking this way.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

RobbieD:

No offense, but if said individiuals don't want to live with 'those people', perhaps they should have done their homework and find fairly easily that there are two social housing sites in the neighbourhood. Clearly, the said individuals didn't pay enough top dollars to allow them to live an exclusionary lifestyle. The focus should be to ensure the safety of the neighbourhood regardless of what the buildings are.

AoD

 

[RobbieD]

RobbieD:

No offense, but if said individiuals don't want to live with 'those people', perhaps they should have done their homework and find fairly easily that there are two social housing sites in the neighbourhood. Clearly, the said individuals didn't pay enough top dollars to allow them to live an exclusionary lifestyle.

AoD

Totally. And I'm sure these people aren't concerned for their safety or anything like that, but rather how the development will affect the views of other people (potential buyers). Anyway, don't shoot the messenger!

 

[AKS]

Totally. And I'm sure these people aren't concerned for their safety or anything like that, but rather how the development will affect the views of other people (potential buyers). Anyway, don't shoot the messenger!

Well, those potential buyers would be moving around quite a bit then every time a TCHC building is built nearby. It's hard to avoid them. The TCHC buildings are spread all over the Toronto, especially in the downtown core. Just be glad there's no injection place nearby. The main issue I would think is not having low income all bunched up into one area. That may or may not degrade it. However since they're spread out, it decreases the problem.

 

[maestro]

OK, for the sake of argument, how would you like to live on Driftwood Ave in the Jane and Finch area? No? Are you now prejudiced and ignorant?

The problems relating to Jane and Finch have to do with the high concentration of poor which is one of the main reasons for mixing subsidized housing into Cityplace. I also think it's quite ignorant to assume any problem complex as therefore being publicly owned when it couldn't be further from the truth. Many of these problematic townhouse complexes throughout the north end are rentals and even condos. The towering San Romanoway, for instance, at the corner of Jane & Finch is condo and rental.

Personally, I'd much rather live beside TCHC housing than cheap rentals or condos. TCHC at least listens and acts to community concerns and overall, does a good job maintaining their properties.

 

[DSC]

People paid top dollar for their units in these buildings (shitty quality aside) and simply don't want to live beside "those type of people" who occupy community housing buildings. Call it what you want - snobbery, NIMBYism, etc - but it exists, and I can't see it not being an issue for some potential buyers in the future.

Of course there will be some people who will not buy near TCHC housing, or airports or railways or even schools but I get really tired of people who have a knee-jerk reaction to these things. I live in the St Lawrence Neighbourhood where we have lots of TCHC buildings, mixed in with co-ops, condos and a few houses. Thanks to good planning and a strong sense of 'neighbourhood' (and a neighbourhood association, www.slna.ca) this actually works very well. The problems arise where there is not a mixture and where 'ghettos' were created (e.g. Regent Park - which is being redeveloped to create a much more socially mixed neighbourhood.)

I think that the adjacency of the City Place condos to the TCHC buildings can benefit both groups and applaud the City for working towards this.

 

[AKS]

I wonder if there would be some racism going in that area though. Like people who buy into the TCHC units at market price gets labeled as "those people" (low income renters). So it's like..."ahh you live in THAT building..." *thoughts: the person is poor* Or kids at school saying "my mama don't me not to play with those people living in that building". Well, just my imagination going wild

 

[Eastside]

Considering the amount of crime that occurs in Cityplace buildings already (half a dozen shots fired in the parking garage of West One and numerous vehicles stolen from the underground parking in the past 2 months, as well as all sorts of other nefarious activity), the public housing may actually decrease the crime rate in the area.

 

[AKS]

Considering the amount of crime that occurs in Cityplace buildings already (half a dozen shots fired in the parking garage of West One and numerous vehicles stolen from the underground parking in the past 2 months, as well as all sorts of other nefarious activity), the public housing may actually decrease the crime rate in the area.

Not really. I suspect the people doing that stuff might not live in the building but know people living in the building. There's a lot of party people here. Once you get into the building, it's not too hard to access the garage. You just need to tag along with someone to access P2 and P3. As for P1, everyone has access and the private area, you just need to wait til a car goes in and follow it when the door is open.

One thing I don't understand is why so many party goers live in this building. I would think they want to live closer to clubland. Maybe when new buildings are built in the clubland area and LCBO is open, they'll move there? *crossing fingers*

 

[simply Dan]

One thing I don't understand is why so many party goers live in this building.

I'm guessing because the buildings are cheap (for downtown) and have a very high proportion of renters.

 

[Schulich07]

This is in fact extremely close to club-land! It is just a short 3 min cab ride or 10/15 min walk to club district!

 

[GrinTO]

Build quality 0

I'm guessing because the buildings are cheap (for downtown) and have a very high proportion of renters.

These buildings are not cheap rent wise. Same rates or more that other new or large buildings around downtown.

 

[egotrippin]

Maybe because it's public housing? Sorry, just had to state the obvious concern which I realize isn't very PC, but a reality nonetheless. Not sure why everyone is tip-towing around the issue. Sure, there are issues of views, traffic, etc., but this is the main one, in my opinion. As a previous CP resident, I'm still a member of the Facebook groups, and this is what people are saying/discussing.

People paid top dollar for their units in these buildings (shitty quality aside) and simply don't want to live beside "those type of people" who occupy community housing buildings. Call it what you want - snobbery, NIMBYism, etc - but it exists, and I can't see it not being an issue for some potential buyers in the future.

Holy god of some sort, are you [censored] serious? Do you realize that there are market rent units in TCHC buildings along with the subsidized units, or are you too out of touch to realize? "Those types" of people are everyone from the elderly, low income earners, single mothers, and Joe Shmo working an entry level office job; or perhaps even someone making quite a bit. Rest assured, there will probably be several well-to-do white people in Block 31 for you to mingle with, and express concerns about the undesirables that you have to occasionally see from afar as you glance out the window from your palace in the sky.

Go move to Niagara-on-the-Lake.