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Toronto/Chicago comparisons

A question from somebody who is NOT a sports fan. What is a "sport culture" and how would Toronto be different if we did have that sport culture? How does Chicago manifest that sports culture? (more sports bars?) Isn't Toronto a great Hockey town? (Is hockey not a sport? lol) What needs to change to make this city a true sports town? What cities have a great sports culture? I just don't get it.
 
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Why would you say that? Have you tried commuting around the world. Take Bangkok for example ... Almost all the transit is buses ... buses that don't actually go anywhere because the roads don't move.

I can't for a minute think how you'd say our commute here is worse.

And look at most American cities ... the bus frequencies, even in many major cities, are laughable.
This was in the Toronto Star. 85 minuates is abysmal. Hows the quaity of life when you spend almost 3 hours on the damn QEW
Have you ever heard of the 24hr traffic jams in China? Have you ever tried going anywhere in Mexico City?
Mexico City yes. Its just as bad. Does not mean we have to be at that level.
 
A question from somebody who is not a sports fan. What is a "sport culture" and how would Toronto be different if we did have that sport culture? How does Chicago manifest that sports culture? (more sports bars?) Isn't Toronto a great Hockey town? (Is hockey not a sport? lol) What needs to change to make this city a true sports town? I just don't get it.
I would like to see more support for all of Toronto's teams, not just the Leafs. Consistent high attendance for even the Argos, and I am an NFL fan. Toronto claims for example, that it wants the NFL, and then does not sell out the games. Blue Jays attendance is bad. it was as low as 10,000 earlier this year. Raptors get their sellouts.
 
I lived in Chicago for 5 years and went to uni there!!! I didn't fall in love with it!!! The only thing they have is the waterfront, the river and the magnificent mile!! That's it!! How many times can u go up and down that street!! It seems that all of there resources go to maintain that street and the waterfront!! Besides, Chicago is an old rich city with historic architecture. Those skyscrapers represent capitalism. Toronto is not like that. Canadians rnt like that either.
 
If it's so bad, why is it so well used?

Why? have you talked about the TTC with regular commuters? Almost everyone hates the TTC but still have to use it, not because it is efficient and convenient, but because they have no choice. Do you know how much more expensive it is in Toronto to own a car than in say Chicago, Montreal or Los Angeles? People will have to stick with it even if the cars are filled with crap.

Toronto have many nice things, but the TTC is definitely not one of them. It is definitely the WORST public transit I have seen in a major city for the following reasons:

1) the subway lines is only sufficient for a city less than half of its size. What's necessary? look at Chicago. (no, please don't use the "ours are cleaner and more accessible" argument, it is a pathetic defense)
2) its technology is sadly outdated. tokens? paper transfers? scratchable passes? Any city would have a automatic fare system nowadays but we are still talking about it, since 2006, as if it is some sort of cutting edge technology.
3) services are simply horrible. numerous scandals which exist nowhere else thanks to our great union. I don't see anywhere else where ticket collectors with no skills at all make $70K a year yet still have the audacity to strike, do you? They should feel lucky to find a street sweeping job offering 20K a year with no benefits at all (trust me, it would be easy to find people willing to do the job for 20k but sadly they don't get a chance to compete).
4) most expensive in North America, and indeed more expensive than Paris, London, Rome and Berlin. On the ground of what? Even Vancouver allows you to transfer in any direction within 2 hours, which means you have make a return trip with one fare, but TTC won't let you use it if you board on a station 400 meters away. And if you compare the discounts offered to seniors/students, the TTC looks extremely stingy and mean (10% vs 50% off in many other cities)
5) extremely slow planning. The city seems to have no vision about public transit at all. Nothing got build since the pathetic 4 station Sheppard east years ago. planners seem more interesting in bickering about ever changing plans than do anything real.

Yes, it is bad, as if they are stuck in the 1980s for the past 30 years. Systems in many developing countries are far better. I have heard so many visitors burst into laughs when they saw our little cherished subway map and the token vending machines, and I don't blame them, as when it comes to transit, many would imagine Toronto have an actual system, not a yellow-green cross sign. If you have take a subway in Shanghai recently, you would think Toronto is some sort of backward third world city whose citizens have no access to any technology created after 1990.

There is no slightest exaggeration when someone says "Toronto has the worst rapid transit in North America". Please don't compare with cities like LA and Houston, those cities are not exactly built for public transit, and more importantly, it doesn't cost an arm and leg just to own a car over there.

The fact is, as a Toronto resident, I don't know what the city wants us to do - to drive or to take transit. As it is extremely expensive to own and insure a car, but at the same time, the public transit is both bad and expensive. Come on, you either choose to be a NYC/Paris type, or a LA/Houston type, you can't give us neither. Right now, choosing either is bad and expensive.
 
I lived in Chicago for 5 years and went to uni there!!! I didn't fall in love with it!!! The only thing they have is the waterfront, the river and the magnificent mile!! That's it!! How many times can u go up and down that street!! It seems that all of there resources go to maintain that street and the waterfront!! Besides, Chicago is an old rich city with historic architecture. Those skyscrapers represent capitalism. Toronto is not like that. Canadians rnt like that either.

I am curious to know what our skyscrapers represent.
 
I don't see anywhere else else where ticket collectors with no skills at all make $70K a year yet still have the audacity to strike, do you? They should feel lucky to find a street sweeping job offering 20K a year with no benefits at all (trust me, it would be easy to find people willing to do the job for 20k but sadly they don't get a chance to compete).

I agree with most of what you said but to be fair not all ticket collectors have no skills it's a "light duty job" some ticket booth workers are on short-term disability.
CTA workers are the third highest paid transit workers in America and are unionized. And honestly i have never met anyone who wants to work a job paying 20K a year with no benefits, There is a reason why unemployed people don't apply for jobs at Tim Hortons.
 
Why? have you talked about the TTC with regular commuters? Almost everyone hates the TTC but still have to use it, not because it is efficient and convenient, but because they have no choice. Do you know how much more expensive it is in Toronto to own a car than in say Chicago, Montreal or Los Angeles? People will have to stick with it even if the cars are filled with crap.

Hmmm...weird logic. The TTC's "popularity" being an artifice because it's so expensive to own a car in Toronto.

Oh well, this is the same kind of yuppie-scumbag pinheadedness that thinks that Chicago would have disposed of a so-called insignificant eyesore like Yonge & Gould long ago...
 
I had to throw this one out there:

You all realize, for the negative press the TTC receives, it still has one of the most extensive and well served (i.e. low headway's) bus networks in North America - particularly out of the core.

Sure mass transit wise we're lacking.


I also need to restate adma's confusion above ... apparently the TTC is so terrible, it has some of the highest usage per capita in North America ? Many American cities are also very expensive to park in ... yet the transit usage rates are astronomically low. What about Chicago and other cities that you'll argue have better mass transit options - all of them have lower usages then Toronto. It must really suck eh ...
 
I had to throw this one out there:

You all realize, for the negative press the TTC receives, it still has one of the most extensive and well served (i.e. low headway's) bus networks in North America - particularly out of the core.

Sure mass transit wise we're lacking.


I also need to restate adma's confusion above ... apparently the TTC is so terrible, it has some of the highest usage per capita in North America ? Many American cities are also very expensive to park in ... yet the transit usage rates are astronomically low. What about Chicago and other cities that you'll argue have better mass transit options - all of them have lower usages then Toronto. It must really suck eh ...
And until we fix that, we are behind.
 
Toronto has a lacking sport culture outside the leafs

No, they aren't. The Raptors have a very strong fan base. However that fan base won't sit there and accept half assed management the way the Leaf fans do. Raptors merchandise sale is strong. The TFC has a huge fan base by MLS standards despite terrible management.
Everyone likes to pick on the Jays. Why? Do you know in the early 90s when the Jays were averaging 50,000 fans/game the Cubs were averaging in the mid 20s, in other words...half. The White Sox were averaging low 20s in the early 2000s that's less then what the Jays were averaging. And just this year the White Sox had 2,000 fans/game more. I would not call that a big difference. However, when the Jays average less then 30,000/game, which many teams do and have in the past, we act as if it's the end of the world.
 
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Do you know how much more expensive it is in Toronto to own a car than in say Chicago, Montreal or Los Angeles? People will have to stick with it even if the cars are filled with crap.

Where do you get your stories from? I don't know about Chicago nor LA, but Toronto is not much more expensive to own a car then Montreal. Do you know what it costs to register a car in Montreal? It's almost 5x times more then in Toronto. Then there's the fact that you have to pay every year for you drivers licence even though it didn't expire. And if car ownership is so expensive here then why does everyone and their mother own a car? And if it's so cheap to own a car in LA, then maybe the state should look into increasing the vehicle regitration cost and other fees, especially when you look at their huge financial mess. You really have no clue what you're talking about.

If you have take a subway in Shanghai recently, you would think Toronto is some sort of backward third world city whose citizens have no access to any technology created after 1990.

Considering all the public transit mishaps (aka crashes) i don't think we should be looking at anything done in China. In order to do so much so fast they cut way too many corners.
 

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