Toronto BMO Field Renovations | ?m | ?s | MLSE | Gensler

[TOareaFan]

Only American Football teams use stadiums that are in the 50-60K range. The MLS will never have a need for that kind of a massive stadium. So in short, no TFC doesn't need a larger stadium for their needs.

Never is a very long time.

Let's see.......last year, Atlanta opened up the full stadium 3 times (for other matches they restricted it to around 45k with tarps)....the attendance for the 3 times they opened it up were 70,425....71,874 (i was at that one) and 67,221....interestingly that last one was only scheduled as a result of the second one (ie it was a playoff match that would not have happened if Atlanta had one the middle match) and was scheduled on 3 days notice.

So their ability to fill that large stadium, at least in their first year, does not seem all that limited.

I think this year they have kept the stadium limited to 45k for all but their home opener.....so hard to tell if the the 72,035 they drew for that is influenced by it being the home opener....but, in the 4 times over 2 years they have opened up the full stadium they have averaged over 70k....so "never" may be a lot closer than you think

 

[gabe]

The sport would do better if they banned the silliness from it, like the fake injury's and dives. I love the sport but I quit watching because of that. I played soccer for years and helped coach my friends son's team, that nonsense wasn't part of the game.

Reminds me of this quote. "The only similarity between professional wrestling and professional soccer is the frequency with which participants feign leg injuries and writhe around in theatrical mock-pain."

 

[Edward Skira]

Opened to full capacity 4 days out of 730 puts it into the never category. Play at the dome if it is needed

I think this year they have kept the stadium limited to 45k for all but their home opener.....so hard to tell if the the 72,035 they drew for that is influenced by it being the home opener....but, in the 4 times over 2 years they have opened up the full stadium they have averaged over 70k....so "never" may be a lot closer than you think

Opened to full capacity 4 days out of 730 puts it into the never category. Use the Rogers Centre on those occasions.

 

[TOareaFan]

Opened to full capacity 4 days out of 730 puts it into the never category. Play at the dome if it is needed


Opened to full capacity 4 days out of 730 puts it into the never category. Use the Rogers Centre on those occasions.

The team has had 17 matches since the stadium was completed and ready for use in September of 2017.....so they have opened up to 70k attendance for ~25% of their matches since it was available.....still "never"?

Look, if WC matches take place in Toronto they will be at BMO....and, even if it is expanded, it will be the weakest/poorest stadium in the tournament.....I am not suggesting matches get played elsewhere.......but someone said MLS teams will "never" need large stadiums.....that is clearly disputable.

 

[TrickyRicky]

A quick survey of Russia 2018 stadium capacities puts most of them in the 45,000 range, with a few in the 60,000 plus and a few in the 35,000 plus range. In other words a pumped up BMO field would be just fine.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

For an idea of MLS attendance, the TFC sit at 3rd this season with 26,295 in attendance on average. In terms of the top in the MLS, Atlanta United hits 48,401, and the Seattle Sounders hits 39,584. There is room for growth for the TFC if they expand, however better transit to the city is key to helping this number grow in my opinion. Source.

 

[TOareaFan]

A quick survey of Russia 2018 stadium capacities puts most of them in the 45,000 range, with a few in the 60,000 plus and a few in the 35,000 plus range. In other words a pumped up BMO field would be just fine.

If it were only about size you would be correct....but the quality of the stadium matters.

Also, when the final stadium selection is done by FIFA (paring down from, what, 26 stadiums on the list now to the final 16) they won't be comparing BMO to the stadiums in use in Russia, they will be comparing them to the other stadiums on the list.......would not be too much of a stretch to suggest that BMO might be ranked 26th on that list (it may be ahead of the Big O in quality but well behind on size........probably behind Commonwealth on both fronts....but it would not be shocking to me that if you got an independent, objective, party to review the list the 3 Cdn stadia were ranked 24/25/26)

 

[TOareaFan]

For an idea of MLS attendance, the TFC sit at 3rd this season with 26,295 in attendance on average. In terms of the top in the MLS, Atlanta United hits 48,401, and the Seattle Sounders hits 39,584. There is room for growth for the TFC if they expand, however better transit to the city is key to helping this number grow in my opinion. Source.

Is there room to grow?

They do not sell out their current stadium....there is room to grow attendance without increasing the size of the stadium....but they seem to have hit a plateau on ticket sales and that plateau is below the current capacity of the stadium.

Compare that to Atlanta....they seem to sell all their tickets most of the time....and the main reason their attendance fluctuates seems to be a decision on when, and when not, to open their upper deck.

 

[Contra]

Compare that to Atlanta....they seem to sell all their tickets most of the time....and the main reason their attendance fluctuates seems to be a decision on when, and when not, to open their upper deck.

Atlanta is an unfair comparison for a few reasons. One they are in their second season so naturally the interest is still high. They also came into the league when the marketability of the MLS is way way larger than it was in 2007. I think the best example of a new club and stadium is Orlando who have a soccer-specific stadium and almost constant sell-outs (big part is keeping the stadium to a reasonable size).

 

[TOareaFan]

Atlanta is an unfair comparison for a few reasons. One they are in their second season so naturally the interest is still high. They also came into the league when the marketability of the MLS is way way larger than it was in 2007. I think the best example of a new club and stadium is Orlando who have a soccer-specific stadium and almost constant sell-outs (big part is keeping the stadium to a reasonable size).

The only comparison I made between Atlanta Utd and TFC was that AU sells ~99% of the tickets they put on sale and TFC does not.....and I only did this to question how much growth potential there is in the TFC numbers.

The reasons why Atlanta is drawing so well are, likely, many.....but since they have sold ~all the tickets they ever tried to sell, it is more likely there is growth potential in their numbers than there is in Toronto who has not done that.

 

[Automation Gallery]

The only comparison I made between Atlanta Utd and TFC was that AU sells ~99% of the tickets they put on sale and TFC does not.....and I only did this to question how much growth potential there is in the TFC numbers.

The reasons why Atlanta is drawing so well are, likely, many.....but since they have sold ~all the tickets they ever tried to sell, it is more likely there is growth potential in their numbers than there is in Toronto who has not done that.

Well many people in Toronto see the MLS as being 3rd division soccer anywhere away from North America

 

[nfitz]

It should be noted that BMO Field isn't guaranteed to be the stadium used for the World Cup. In fact, Toronto isn't guaranteed to be a host city. All that's been decided is that the US, Canada and Mexico will host. The details will be finalized in 2021 when host cities will be announced. Of course, Toronto is very likely to host given it's Canada's largest city, the Mayor is all in and the city was front and centre in Canada's part of the bid.

Nothing is ever guaranteed. For example, if the Pickering Nuclear Generating Station were to melt-down next year, or Toronto City Council backs out, then plans may change!

However the March 2018 bid book is pretty explicit, and matched the June 2018 presentation to FIFA. There will be 3 host cities in Mexico. 3 host cities in Canada, and 10 host cities in the USA.

While there may be 23 Candidate Host Cities - 17 of them are in the USA, 3 are in Mexico, and 3 are in Canada.

The plan to finalize of host cities, only pertains to the 17 US candidates. Not to Toronto (BMO Field), Montreal (Olympic Stadium), or Edmonton (Commonwealth Stadium).

Also the stadium size for BMO is already forecast to be 45,500.

 

[ChesterCopperpot]

Page 140 in that book

 

[raptor]

In addition to the 4 matches played in TO during the World Cup itself, there will probably be some 'test matches' (ie, friendlies)

 

[nfitz]

In addition to the 4 matches played in TO during the World Cup itself, there will probably be some 'test matches' (ie, friendlies)

Presumably - and possibly the 2025 Confederations Cup as well.

But nothing unusual there - there's been four Men's Senior friendlies and/or World Cup Qualifiers at BMO Field other years, primarily in the summer - and even 3 in Summer 2015, including a Gold Cup match in the middle of the Pan Am games.

In 2007, there were 12 U20 World Cup matches at BMO Field in July 2007, in addition to a Senior Men's friendly later in the summer, and regular Toronto FC games.

Four world cup matches - even with 45,000 in attendance, over a 19-day period, is nothing. The most critical upgrades, are to the north, where 30,000 people overwhelm the GO tunnel. But GO Transit is already planning to install two additional tunnels, and add a third platform, long before 2026. Along with a new 4-platform GO (aka Smartrak) station on the Kitchener line, that will be accessible from Atlantic and King, a short walk further north.

I'm not sure how they add 10,000 more seats, over what they did for the Grey Cup. Presumably a proper north stand, and perhaps a new south stand.

Here's the King/Atlantic entrance to the new GO Station from April 2018 - http://smarttrack.to/smarttrack/new-stations/liberty-village-station/

The effects to the city are really minimal here. If the current schedule holds (it's been reported Toronto is CAN1), then the games are Tuesday, Friday, and two Sundays. Looking at past world Cups, one can probably predict the weekday games will be early afternoon.

Wouldn't even mess up rush-hour! A bit of traffic on the Sundays, if there are other events, but still relatively early in the day.

Vancouver built a 28,000 temporary stadium (Empire Field) for only two years (2010/2011) for only $14 million. Temporary seats at BMO Field aren't a big issue. On the north, they can (and frequently do) utilize the massive washroom facilities on the south side of the Food Building).

This is all pretty minor stuff really, given there's only 4 games over 3 weeks, and all the existing and planned infrastructure coming.