Toronto BMO Field Renovations | ?m | ?s | MLSE | Gensler

[Bogtrotter]

The CFL just isn't an exciting game. The game needs an extra down to make it more interesting - give the teams another passing opportunity.

Plus, really, who cares if we play against Saskatchewan or Winnipeg? It's humiliating to lose to every little town in Canada.

Another key problem, the Argos never win.

If you can't put a good product on the field, no one is going to care. This goes for every sports franchise. (except the Leafs of course).

The average attendance in Buffalo is 63,000
The city with the lowest average attendance is St. Louis with 52,000
the highest average attendance is Dallas with 92,000
17,000 just doesn't hit the radar screen

True you need a good product, but no way 10,000 people show up for a high school football here let alone 80,000 for college ball regardless of level of play. And it's not all about bigger US population- I think fans are more into it- they better know the players, the stats and finer points of game. I think there are more grass-roots fans there...I find here the larger proportion of fans are casual. I once had the distinct pleasure to chat with Ron Lancaster, albeit 8-9 years ago now, who told me that he didn't think Toronto was a very good sports town. I wasn't sure if I believed him at the time but I think outside of hockey he is probably right. Go Jays!

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

How many friendlies and CSA games are there in a typical year, and how many of those are played on weekends?

TFC friendlys are generally played mid week (Wednesday) and there are usually 1 maybe 2 per year towards the summer break by the european leagues. It's like training camp for the European teams.

CSA generally plays around 10 (?) per year depending on the year and what tournaments might be happening (WC qualification, Olympic qualification, Concacaf Gold cup, friendlies)

 

[ChesterCopperpot]

Let's not forget Canada Rugby playing there too

 

[Big Daddy]

Sports fans. Seriously, it's a metro area of 6 million. Growing the fan base isn't really rocket science. Besides, Argos TV ratings are a lot better than most people realize, so there's a significant fan base already. Marketing to youth is key.


A lot of football fans would argue the opposite. The bigger field combined with one less down means that teams are forced to take more risks. The CFL has long been known as a passing, offence first league compared to the NFL. You could say the same for the Canadian game in general.

A lot of hockey fans prefer the European game for similar reasons.


Why are Canadians so down on their own country? Are NFL and EPL fans humiliated when their teams lose to the likes of Norwich, Leicester, and Green Bay? Every league has small cities and they're often some of the most cherished members of the league, with some of the most storied histories and passionate fan bases.


They last one the Grey Cup in 2012. Nice try though.


AFC Bournemouth average 11,000 fans per game. Is that a good reason to dismiss the Premier League?

Your local team doesn't have to play in the pinnacle of its sport to be worthy of support. Just ask a TFC fan.

As for the argument "with one less down means that teams are forced to take more risks" - this doesn't play out. What inevitably happens is they don't take more risks, they punt. Yawn.

No, my point is that there just isn't the interest in football in Canada like there is in the U.S. I don't think an NFL team would fare any better here for exactly this reason - so this is not an NFL vs CFL argument. We don't have a football culture here. We don't have the college football culture to create the National football interest either. The only reason the CFL is important in the west is, that's all there is - there isn't another sport to fill the gap.

"Your local team doesn't have to play in the pinnacle of its sport to be worthy of support." Maybe, but I can't support a team that doesn't contend - and Toronto doesn't have many contenders. In baseball, the Yankees almost always make the playoffs or at least are contending for it. But for comparison, the leafs are never contenders and that I cannot support that.

The Canadian Tire Centre in Ottawa used to be filled with Leaf fans no matter how hard they tried to keep them out. What ultimately changed this is the Senators starting winning far more often than the Leafs did - they became contenders - and now there is no more "Leaf Nation" in Ottawa.

I think Toronto is changing and the new young fans are demanding contenders whether it's baseball, basketball or even hockey. Perennial losing is beyond aggravating, it eats into your own self esteem when "your team" constantly loses. The reason so many people jumped on the Blue Jays band wagon is they want to feel like winners again - and being a Leaf or Argo fan isn't going to deliver that.

 

[ChesterCopperpot]

Yawn

My thoughts exactly

 

[Michael Ianni]

As long as the Argos don't ruin our grass, your welcomed to play at BMO whenever TFC isn't in town, im still worried about the paint even though MLSE keep saying they found a solution, it would be a first

 

[Big Daddy]

Apparently, Big Daddy has a memory of a goldfish, as the Argos won the Grey Cup in the Rogers Centre three years ago.

Apparently I'm not alone as the average attendance drops to 17,000.

 

[MisterF]

As for the argument "with one less down means that teams are forced to take more risks" - this doesn't play out. What inevitably happens is they don't take more risks, they punt. Yawn.

Well whatever the reason, the CFL has been known as a more offensive, pass-oriented league for decades. You don't have to take my word for it, just ask people who have played in both leagues. It's a common opinion.

No, my point is that there just isn't the interest in football in Canada like there is in the U.S. I don't think an NFL team would fare any better here for exactly this reason - so this is not an NFL vs CFL argument. We don't have a football culture here. We don't have the college football culture to create the National football interest either. The only reason the CFL is important in the west is, that's all there is - there isn't another sport to fill the gap.

True for the most part - football is #2 in Canada but it's by far the most popular sport in the US. It's like a religion down there. But to say that there's no other sport in the west isn't accurate. The west has 4 NHL teams while the east has only 3. They have just as many sports per capita as we do.

"Your local team doesn't have to play in the pinnacle of its sport to be worthy of support." Maybe, but I can't support a team that doesn't contend - and Toronto doesn't have many contenders. In baseball, the Yankees almost always make the playoffs or at least are contending for it. But for comparison, the leafs are never contenders and that I cannot support that.

The Canadian Tire Centre in Ottawa used to be filled with Leaf fans no matter how hard they tried to keep them out. What ultimately changed this is the Senators starting winning far more often than the Leafs did - they became contenders - and now there is no more "Leaf Nation" in Ottawa.

I think Toronto is changing and the new young fans are demanding contenders whether it's baseball, basketball or even hockey. Perennial losing is beyond aggravating, it eats into your own self esteem when "your team" constantly loses. The reason so many people jumped on the Blue Jays band wagon is they want to feel like winners again - and being a Leaf or Argo fan isn't going to deliver that.

I'm not sure why any of this is directed at the Argos. Again, they last won the Grey Cup in 2012. And this year they have an 8-5 record.

Leafs support has dropped, which was probably a part of why they've taken such drastic measures to rebuild their management team from scratch. But there are still tonnes of Leafs fans who go to Ottawa and Buffalo for games. Two years ago when they last made the playoffs there was more buzz in the city than even the Jays this year. And that was with a mediocre team that wasn't expected to do anything. I think a lot of Leafs fans in their 20s and 30s stay loyal because when they were kids in the 90s and early 2000s the Leafs were contenders year after year (although they never won it all).

 

[taal]

Well whatever the reason, the CFL has been known as a more offensive, pass-oriented league for decades. You don't have to take my word for it, just ask people who have played in both leagues. It's a common opinion.


True for the most part - football is #2 in Canada but it's by far the most popular sport in the US. It's like a religion down there. But to say that there's no other sport in the west isn't accurate. The west has 4 NHL teams while the east has only 3. They have just as many sports per capita as we do.


I'm not sure why any of this is directed at the Argos. Again, they last won the Grey Cup in 2012. And this year they have an 8-5 record.

Leafs support has dropped, which was probably a part of why they've taken such drastic measures to rebuild their management team from scratch. But there are still tonnes of Leafs fans who go to Ottawa and Buffalo for games. Two years ago when they last made the playoffs there was more buzz in the city than even the Jays this year. And that was with a mediocre team that wasn't expected to do anything. I think a lot of Leafs fans in their 20s and 30s stay loyal because when they were kids in the 90s and early 2000s the Leafs were contenders year after year (although they never won it all).

That least category explains me well, the leafs were a great team back in the 2000s, sure they never won it all but they made the playoffs most years and generally always got by the first round (always beating Ottawa). Back in those days, believe it or not, there was no question about whether the leafs would make the playoffs, that was a given at the start of the season, the real question is would they get past the 2nd round.

 

[TOareaFan]

As long as the Argos don't ruin our grass, your welcomed to play at BMO whenever TFC isn't in town, im still worried about the paint even though MLSE keep saying they found a solution, it would be a first

They had an NFL game at Wembley last Sunday.....then this past Friday England played at home against, I think, Estonia. There were no visibile lines at all.....all that was visible was a shadowed out NFL logo right at midfield....so if they avoid those big, paint intensive, logos they should be fine.

 

[Michael Ianni]

So disappointed to hear the north stand is going be destroyed just so the Argos could play at BMO, we were promised TFC wouldn't be affected by Argos moving BMO and here's just another issue arising affecting our soccer stadium

 

[MisterF]

View attachment 57026 View attachment 57027 So disappointed to hear the north stand is going be destroyed just so the Argos could play at BMO, we were promised TFC wouldn't be affected by Argos moving BMO and here's just another issue arising affecting our soccer stadium

Out of curiosity, who does "our" refer to? It's not Toronto FC's stadium. It's not MLSE's stadium. It belongs to the city. The expansion has mostly been paid for by Bell, Rogers, and Larry Tannenbaum...two of whom recently bought the Argos. I guess what I'm getting at is that the Argos have just as much claim to the stadium as TFC.

 

[Michael Ianni]

Out of curiosity, who does "our" refer to? It's not Toronto FC's stadium. It's not MLSE's stadium. It belongs to the city. The expansion has mostly been paid for by Bell, Rogers, and Larry Tannenbaum...two of whom recently bought the Argos. I guess what I'm getting at is that the Argos have just as much claim to the stadium as TFC.

You know exactly what I mean, no reason to be a smart ass. Shows the disrespect that MLSE is showing towards the TFC fans which stood by the team for 8 years of failure and now there suddenly going against them by bringing in a football team which clearly goes against European football stanadards and MLS's push for soccer only stadiums. All for a team which averages something like 14000 fans and that's with who knows how many free tickets

 

[TOareaFan]

You know exactly what I mean, no reason to be a smart ass. Shows the disrespect that MLSE is showing towards the TFC fans which stood by the team for 8 years of failure and now there suddenly going against them by bringing in a football team which clearly goes against European football stanadards and MLS's push for soccer only stadiums. All for a team which averages something like 14000 fans and that's with who knows how many free tickets

day one season ticket holder of TFC so I have no axe to grind.....but I do grind axes against mis-truths (in any argument) to make one side over the other....the Argos have never averaged 14k.....and if you are going to question the veracity of their stated average, you better come with hard evidence that they are less truthful with their averages than TFC is.

 

[MisterF]

^Well technically they are drawing that poorly, although I'm not sure if that includes "home" games where they were kicked out of Rogers Centre. They were close to that low for a couple years around 2000-ish, but they rebounded back to over 30,000 pretty quickly.

You know exactly what I mean, no reason to be a smart ass. Shows the disrespect that MLSE is showing towards the TFC fans which stood by the team for 8 years of failure and now there suddenly going against them by bringing in a football team which clearly goes against European football stanadards and MLS's push for soccer only stadiums. All for a team which averages something like 14000 fans and that's with who knows how many free tickets

Well the fact remains that TFC doesn't own the stadium or have any claim to it. If TFC wants their own soccer specific stadium they're welcome to build one of their own. But as long as they play in a city facility and are owned by the same people who own the Argos they'll have to share. TFC fans are making it out to be some sort of burden. The stadium should have been built for both sports in the first place as the city intended. This renovation is just righting that wrong.

As for Argos attendance, they're at rock bottom right now. Three of their "home" games have been outside of their home, one of which was in Fort McMurray of all places. TFC's average attendance of 23,700 isn't exactly earth shattering. The Argos have drawn that well as recently as three years ago. Attendance will go up when the new ownership group brings some stability to the team (and presumably a decent advertising budget) and they move to BMO.

PS those renderings of the expanded stadium look great. It'll be a huge improvement for both soccer and football.