Toronto Bisha Hotel and Residences | 146.91m | 44s | Lifetime | Wallman Architects

tylergreenleaf said:
I understand where you're coming from, but it's attitudes like this that drive me crazy. I am hoping that Toronto sees a tipping point in the next few years where people realize that raising children in downtown actually makes more sense than out in the burbs.

Would you question someone raising children in Manhattan?

Near this location are all the amenities you would need, plus a a decent sized park nearby. This is a great place for 3 bedroom units for families.
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I never suggested that it's better to raise kids in the burbs than downtown, I was just thinking about this site in particular and proximity to all the clubs (which I admit I didn't completely think out since this particular area is evolving). To use your example, there is nothing wrong with raising kids in Manhattan, but would you choose a place 2 blocks from Times Square or somewhere in Greenwich Village, Tribeca, or Battery Park? I personally would love to get a place and raise my kids in the east areas of Toronto like St. Lawrence, West Don Lands and East Bayfront (when they are built).

There needs to be a shift where more families are living downtown. I remember hearing from Adam Vaughan that his riding (Ward 20) alone had something like 4 or 5 public schools slated for closure in the next couple of years because of changing demographics (fewer children.)
 
The kids would/should be tucked away in bed during the times when the club district is hopping with undesirable teenagers 10-15 years older than the aforementioned kids. During the day the place is completely harmless and filled with business types.

Also, to the north you have Grange Park, which is also a pretty nice spot with another school. I totally agree that you kind of need to use your imagination to picture families with kids here, though.

marcus_a_j said:
I remember hearing from Adam Vaughan that his riding (Ward 20) alone had something like 4 or 5 public schools slated for closure in the next couple of years because of changing demographics (fewer children.)
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--------------- Everything below this line comes from a TDSB insider ---------------

Nothing's going to close, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are too many schools running in his ward. Closing something takes a good two years assuming no hiccoughs. School board trustees decide those things, and they come up for election every three years, I think.

A condo like this offering a good supply of 3-bedroom / family-sized units might save 1/4 of a school.
 
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marcus_a_j said:
There needs to be a shift where more families are living downtown. I remember hearing from Adam Vaughan that his riding (Ward 20) alone had something like 4 or 5 public schools slated for closure in the next couple of years because of changing demographics (fewer children.)
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I would agree that I don't know if 'downtown' is the optimal place to raise a family. There are lots of family-suitable neighbourhoods in the city without having to raise children in the entertainment district, as an example. Of course those areas are highly coveted and very expensive which is why many do choose to haul it out to the suburbs. Is downtown a completely inappropriate place? Probably not, but faced with the choice I do think one would have to ask one's self just whose needs are being prioritized, those of the urban parent or those of the children?
 
Tewder said:
but faced with the choice I do think one would have to ask one's self just whose needs are being prioritized, those of the urban parent or those of the children?
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I would say that for someone who works downtown, you would be prioritizing your children more by living downtown, for the simple fact that you would (most likely) have a shorter commute and thus have more time available to spend with your children.
 
I don't really think downtown is suitable for children. Not because of density -millions of kids grow up in Hong Kong just fine- but just because of who it is intended to cater to. I would even suggest somewhere like NYCC or Davisville would be better. The reason? Mainly schools. 'Downtown' schools are generally perceived as being substandard. Outside of Jarvis Collegiate and UTS, not many schools in the downtown core have a good reputation. Not that the 'burbs don't have their share of bad public schools, but parents tend to remain convinced that the best public schools are places like Earl Haig or Lawrence Park.
 
Whoaccio said:
but parents tend to remain convinced that the best public schools are places like Earl Haig or Lawrence Park.
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Well, the Stintzian extreme-yuppie types of parents, at least. In practice, though, I find that a lot of "downtowner parents" opt for alternative schools and the like...
 
Whoaccio said:
I don't really think downtown is suitable for children. Not because of density -millions of kids grow up in Hong Kong just fine- but just because of who it is intended to cater to. I would even suggest somewhere like NYCC or Davisville would be better. The reason? Mainly schools. 'Downtown' schools are generally perceived as being substandard. Outside of Jarvis Collegiate and UTS, not many schools in the downtown core have a good reputation. Not that the 'burbs don't have their share of bad public schools, but parents tend to remain convinced that the best public schools are places like Earl Haig or Lawrence Park.
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The schools may be substandard, but they don't need to remain that way.
 
adma said:
Well, the Stintzian extreme-yuppie types of parents, at least. In practice, though, I find that a lot of "downtowner parents" opt for alternative schools and the like...
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Yes, that is probably true, but as far as I can tell we are discussing the lack of 'downtown parents.' If this is perceived as a problem, then you will either have to attract a.)'Stintzian extreme yuppie types of parents' or b.)immigrant parents. The only other group of parents are podunk hillbillys, which I doubt anybody really wants 'downtown.' Neither a.) nor b.) have any interest in 'alternative schools' unless they help their kids get into Queen's Commerce or some professional faculty. So, the only real way to lure more families downtown is to provide schools which are perceived to prepare their kids for a one of the programs I listed.

Re. khristopher:
In a way I think it is perverse that 'downtown' schools are perceived as substandard. You would figure school quality would, roughly, follow land value. I mean, most of cities most valuable shopping, commercial and residential space is located downtown. You would figure education would follow suit. Toronto should try to develop something akin to Stuyvesant High School in Battery Park.
 
Whoaccio said:
Re. khristopher:
In a way I think it is perverse that 'downtown' schools are perceived as substandard. You would figure school quality would, roughly, follow land value. I mean, most of cities most valuable shopping, commercial and residential space is located downtown. You would figure education would follow suit. Toronto should try to develop something akin to Stuyvesant High School in Battery Park.
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However, consider the public-education alternatives to Stuyvesant HS. On balance, while we may not hit those kinds of highs, we don't hit American-style lows, either, even in our "downtown" schools--and if anything, demographics mean that our downtown schools might actually be better off, healthy-diversity and community-ethic-wise, than a lot of their counterparts in N York, Scarberia, etc...
 
adma said:
However, consider the public-education alternatives to Stuyvesant HS. On balance, while we may not hit those kinds of highs, we don't hit American-style lows, either, even in our "downtown" schools--and if anything, demographics mean that our downtown schools might actually be better off, healthy-diversity and community-ethic-wise, than a lot of their counterparts in N York, Scarberia, etc...
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Right, in someways it is more of a perception problem than a real problem to begin with. Like crime, many consider 'downtown' Toronto to be something out of The Wire when homicides are fairly spread out across the city. Perception can be just as bad as real problems though. It would have been interesting to design CityPlace with a really top notch public school as a selling point. It worked well for NYCC & Earl Haig.
 
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