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Toronto Bike Share

Avenue said:
It's a problematic buzzword to throw around because in the case of Bikeshare in Toronto, TTC stops are far more frequent than Bikeshare stations - as in for people who have already taken transit into the city, there's no logical case for bikeshare to be "intended for last mile" since public transit will more precisely get you to your address. It's an alternative and more affordable mode of transportation with positive externalities such as health and low carbon emission. Let's leave it at that.
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That's an oversimplification, though. I bike primarily for a combination of the fact that it's more reliable, less dependent upon traffic (depending on the route), not wedded to scheduling, and much less likely to mean I'm crammed into someone's armpit -- all of those things are as true with bike share as they are with my own personal bike.

That's perfectly logical.
 
ADRM said:
That's an oversimplification, though. I bike primarily for a combination of the fact that it's more reliable, less dependent upon traffic (depending on the route), not wedded to scheduling, and much less likely to mean I'm crammed into someone's armpit -- all of those things are as true with bike share as they are with my own personal bike.
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OK, fine but that still doesn't make Bixi a 'last mile solution'. Doesn't match the definition of the term. The original claim was that "The point is to take transit and then use bike share for the last mile, which I think is Metrolinx's vision", which we're objecting by saying in the areas where bike share does exist currently, there's no 'last mile problem' to be solved.
 
Avenue said:
OK, fine but that still doesn't make Bixi a 'last mile solution'. Doesn't match the definition of the term. The original claim was that "The point is to take transit and then use bike share for the last mile, which I think is Metrolinx's vision", which we're objecting by saying in the areas where bike share does exist currently, there's no 'last mile problem' to be solved.
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I'm not sure I follow -- take the instance of a former coworker of mine who lives near a GO station on the Lakeshore West line. He lives too far away from the station to comfortably walk it, and there aren't great transit options to get him there, either. He drives his car every day to the station because that's easiest (obviously, there's the oft-discussed parking subsidy question coming into play here) but would gladly bike if there was a bike share station. Isn't that pretty close to the purest intention of what folks mean when they're talking about Metrolinx and its focus on the last mile?
 
ADRM said:
I'm not sure I follow -- take the instance of a former coworker of mine who lives near a GO station on the Lakeshore West line. He lives too far away from the station to comfortably walk it, and there aren't great transit options to get him there, either. He drives his car every day to the station because that's easiest (obviously, there's the oft-discussed parking subsidy question coming into play here) but would gladly bike if there was a bike share station. Isn't that pretty close to the purest intention of what folks mean when they're talking about Metrolinx and its focus on the last mile?
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I'm in the reverse. I can get to Union on Bikeshare no issues, and then GoTrain to Port Credit. But it's that last mile to my office from Port Credit.

Thankfully I can bring my bike onto the train during rush hour, as a reverse commuter. I'm thinking of buying one of these http://www.ikea.com/ca/en/catalog/products/30326728/
 
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LNahid2000 said:
People don't only use the TTC to take transit into the city
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Go Transit brings 100,000 people into the city on a typical weekday morning, and a couple hundred of them at most can bike away from Union Station.

ADRM said:
He drives his car every day to the station because that's easiest (obviously, there's the oft-discussed parking subsidy question coming into play here) but would gladly bike if there was a bike share station. Isn't that pretty close to the purest intention of what folks mean when they're talking about Metrolinx and its focus on the last mile?
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It is, but a Bike Share program isn't going to be sustainable in extreme low-density suburbs along the Go Transit lines. It's going to require ridiculous subsidies to have enough stations for people to actually use it, and it's going to cost even more to shuffle bikes around because nearly all the usage at any given time is in the same direction.

Let's get this really clear: Bike Share only works in medium- or high-density, mixed use areas that constantly have two-way traffic. Even in some parts of downtown that's a concern - it can be nearly impossible to get a bike in the Financial District in the evenings, for example, because hardly anyone's biking into there and tons of people are biking away from there.
 
amnesiajune said:
Even in some parts of downtown that's a concern - it can be nearly impossible to get a bike in the Financial District in the evenings, for example, because hardly anyone's biking into there and tons of people are biking away from there.
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Not true. Although many people are biking away from the financial district in the evening, many are also biking to the financial district to catch trains from Union.

Bike Share also has employees at the busy stations in the financial district during rush hour to add bikes to docks immediately as they are removed by commuters.
 
LNahid2000 said:
Your point? This will only increase as bike infrastructure is improved in Toronto.
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Bike Share is limited in so many ways. It will never be a "last mile" for more than a small fraction of 1% of Go Train users. Even if there was demand for it (there isn't) there's not enough sidewalk space for the bike docks to have more than a couple hundred Go Train users biking from Union to their workplace.

LNahid2000 said:
Not true. Although many people are biking away from the financial district in the evening, many are also biking to the financial district to catch trains from Union.
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Go try to find a bike on a weekday at 6:30 pm around King, Queen, St. Andrew or Osgoode station. You'll probably pass one or two empty stations before you find one, and there's a decent chance you'll be taking the station's last bike when you do.
 
amnesiajune said:
Bike Share is limited in so many ways. It will never be a "last mile" for more than a small fraction of 1% of Go Train users. Even if there was demand for it (there isn't) there's not enough sidewalk space for the bike docks to have more than a couple hundred Go Train users biking from Union to their workplace.
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That doesn't make sense. If all the bike docks are empty at 6:30pm, presumably many people are biking into the financial district in the morning, leaving those bikes available for GO commuters to distribute throughout the system again. Each bike brought in from outside the financial district is a bike that can be used by a GO commuter for their last mile. And each dock can obviously be used more than once per day since bikes are continuously being circulated through the system.

amnesiajune said:
Go try to find a bike on a weekday at 6:30 pm around King, Queen, St. Andrew or Osgoode station. You'll probably pass one or two empty stations before you find one, and there's a decent chance you'll be taking the station's last bike when you do.
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Will report back at 6:30pm tonight to see if you're right or not.
 
LNahid2000 said:
That doesn't make sense. If all the bike docks are empty at 6:30pm, presumably many people are biking into the financial district in the morning, leaving those bikes available for GO commuters to distribute throughout the system again.
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Nobody's going to walk more than a block or two looking for a bike. That's why Go Transit put 100 docks right in front of Union Station. And yes, they can be used more than once per day, but there's still a lot of turnaround time.

Again, Bike Share will never be a "last mile" for more than a fraction of one percent of Go Train users. Nobody (except you and a couple of others in the forum) seriously thinks that its a last mile solution. It exists because it's a lot cheaper than putting its users on the TTC, and for no reason except that.
 
LNahid2000 said:
Its also often faster and more predictable than the ttc with its constant delays.
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Perhaps, but that's not why the city and provincial government are pouring money into it. They're doing it because it's extremely cheap to run and the tiny subsidy that it gets can be hidden in TPA's books. If every bike ride had an operating cost of $3.00 like on the TTC (bike share rides cost about a third of that) the system wouldn't exist.
 
amnesiajune said:
Perhaps, but that's not why the city and provincial government are pouring money into it. They're doing it because it's extremely cheap to run and the tiny subsidy that it gets can be hidden in TPA's books. If every bike ride had an operating cost of $3.00 like on the TTC (bike share rides cost about a third of that) the system wouldn't exist.
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Right, they're only doing it because it's cheap and not because of any of the benefits it provides. /s
 
amnesiajune said:
They're doing it because the benefits are justified at the low cost, but wouldn't be justified (as far as the city's and province's goals are concerned) at a higher cost.
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Not going to keep debating you when you always have to be the last to respond, so we're going to have to agree to disagree.

Anyway, it's almost 6:30 and there isn't a single empty dock in the financial district, so it seems like you're making statements for the sake of argument without actually using the system.

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