Toronto 87 Peter | 156.05m | 49s | Menkes | Core Architects

unimaginative2 said:
Here's a link to describe what we're tearing down without the slightest thought. It's a unique building with a real history in the neighbourhood that has been adapted for many uses over the years. Now, it'll just be demolished. It's not the most special or extraordinary of buildings in the area, but it gives the street a kind of character that a monolithic canyon of bland 2010-era glass condo towers never will. I can't imagine too many successful cities that are more completely open for any kind of development, no matter what it is. I can assure you New York wouldn't allow the entire East Village to leveled for 50-storey condo towers. It makes Toronto seem like a Cleveland or Detroit, so desperate for development that it will take anything. The Distillery is an even more extreme example.
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Agreed.
 
Comparing this area to the East Village is just a little bit of a stretch of the imagination. A more app comparing is St Lawrence which despite development pressures, is largely maintaining its form. Midtown Manhattan is in a similar situation as our Entertainment District. It's in the process of being upzoned and will see dozens of designated, outdated high-rises replaced by glass over the next few decades.

Anyways, the building has very little redeeming qualities. The condo tower replacing it doesn't have much either however, at least it represents a more current use and density for the site. Every building has history. It's to be respected but, shouldn't stand in the way of progress either.

Note: I'm not a fan with form of these towers going up in the Entertainment District. Super-sized 400+ unit towers have little appeal to me. However, this area is grossly underdeveloped for being next to the core.
 
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this is junk. another project sales center shuttered...joining the list alongside Tux. nice one menkes.
 
maestro said:
Comparing this area to the East Village is just a little bit of a stretch of the imagination. A more app comparing is St Lawrence which despite development pressures, is largely maintaining its form. Midtown Manhattan is in a similar situation as our Entertainment District. It's in the process of being upzoned and will see dozens of designated, outdated high-rises replaced by glass over the next few decades.

Anyways, the building has very little redeeming qualities. The condo tower replacing it doesn't have much either however, at least it represents a more current use and density for the site. Every building has history. It's to be respected but, shouldn't stand in the way of progress either.

Note: I'm not a fan with form of these towers going up in the Entertainment District. Super-sized 400+ unit towers have little appeal to me. However, this area is grossly underdeveloped for being next to the core.
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I completely understand what you're saying. I'm not so sure that the Entertainment District and that part of Midtown are directly comparable, though. I think you're referring to Burden's plan to up-zone the Park Avenue corridor. The difference is that it's already pretty much a high-rise monoculture. That's not going to change--the buildings will just get newer and higher. That has its own issues, but it's much different from demolishing a neighbourhood with mixed uses and mixed built form and replacing it with a high-rise monoculture. That's what they did to Park Avenue in the 1950s.

In New York, you do see new buildings added to existing neighbourhoods, but that's just it--they're added to existing neighbourhoods. They're not replacing neighbourhoods wholesale. New buildings are usually roughly within the height envelope of the surrounding buildings, and they're not superblock developments. The only places where you'll see Toronto-style multi-block wall-of-glass developments is on vacant land.
 
To be fair, we see few superblock developments in Toronto, and those are overwhelmingly on vacant sites like CityPlace. Replacing neighbourhoods wholesale ended with the reform movement in the 1970s. I don't know why the Distillery District has come up in this discussion when its heritage buildings have been beautifully restored and repurposed with a limited number of attractively detailed towers added. Why not praise it? It's a success for other cities to look to, being far more interesting than the kind of kitschy tourist zone that's irrelevant to locals which can be found in many American cities.
 
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ThomasJ said:
this is junk. another project sales center shuttered...joining the list alongside Tux. nice one menkes.
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Has this been confirmed? Is this project on hold or even cancelled? It is not that I am particularly interested in this project but I wondering if Tux and this constitute the beginning of a trend.

I had lunch a while ago at which I sat across the table from the VP of acquisitions of a major developer, and asked him about the Toronto market, more specifically whether it was seriously overbuilt. His prediction was that there would be a "correction" but that class A properties would maintain their value. The effect would be felt by class B and C properties. My guess is that Noir would be a class B property and I am wondering if the prediction is beginning to come true. By the way, he also said a crash is possible, but it would not be caused by overbuilding in Toronto but by credit problems stemming from some development in Europe.

Thanks in advance.
 
67Cup said:
Has this been confirmed? Is this project on hold or even cancelled? It is not that I am particularly interested in this project but I wondering if Tux and this constitute the beginning of a trend.

I had lunch a while ago at which I sat across the table from the VP of acquisitions of a major developer, and asked him about the Toronto market, more specifically whether it was seriously overbuilt. His prediction was that there would be a "correction" but that class A properties would maintain their value. The effect would be felt by class B and C properties. My guess is that Noir would be a class B property and I am wondering if the prediction is beginning to come true. By the way, he also said a crash is possible, but it would not be caused by overbuilding in Toronto but by credit problems stemming from some development in Europe.

Thanks in advance.
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yes it is true and yes Noir is a class B property. menkes will lose their shirt on this one.
 
Application: Temporary Structures Status: Not Started

Location: 87 PETER ST
TORONTO ON

Ward 20: Trinity-Spadina

Application#: 12 289937 TPS 00 TS Accepted Date: Dec 6, 2012

Project: Commercial Sales Pavilions

Description: Proposal to construct a 1 sty sales centre. "Noir Sales Office". Proposed date - Dec 12/12 - Dec 12/14.
 
Is this the sales office?

8265411708_d059464d8e_b.jpg
 
Thanks for the update, minus the doom n' gloom. I am interested to see how they handle the sales centre. King Blue's presentation centre will be a tough act to follow in the ED (note I am only praising the King Blue presentation centre - not trying to incur anybody's wrath)
 
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