Hamilton 84 York Boulevard | ?m | 30s | Empire | Rafael + Bigauskas

Downtown Hamilton is in dire need of performance spaces of that size.

The loss of that + SJAM’s Auditorium around the corner is a shame (in what is supposed to be an ‘entertainment district’).

Speaking of SJAM, the YMCA should move to that site and include affordable apartments since the consortium that owns York Blvd won’t commit to any.
 
The committee voted unanimously to accept staff's recommendation to designate the building as heritage this afternoon.

ok so that was a lot to take in..

what I got from it was:

Developer proposed demolishing the building because brick was disintegrating, retaining stained glass pillars and some of the elements surrounding the doors

the council felt that with the trend of adding 30 story buildings that this area was losing its original character (which I agree with) and that even if it was demolished that the design, which they found offensive for this region (also agree and commented on before) should have reflected the traditional surroundings more.

In addition they felt that because of how much profit this lot would take, which would be 227 million net profit, that they have more than enough money to actually restore the building

They then moved to design it full heritage vs an easement - which makes it sound like the city has more control over this and they opted to preserve the building in it entirety and that the developer would be forced to only add one tower in the parking lot behind it as a result, but that this would still be further debatable in court? That part my eyes sorta glazed over for?

I am assuming that if this is now designed full heritage all of the stone/cement cladding would be removed, the brick removed, replaced, the stone washed similar to the royal connaught addition was, and restored to its 1901-1905 original look, is that correct?

I also had worries about his original proposal that the lobby, which is public access would retain heritage features such as stain glass in an area that has been known for homeless people, and that damage to such artifacts would thus ensue.

But yeah is that right? If so I find that highly encouraging.. maybe one day I should apply to be on that committee...
 
"the council felt that with the trend of adding 30 story buildings that this area was losing its original character"

By character do they mean poor, rundown, falling apart and full of homeless people? I'm okay with the area losing the character and building modern condos for people with disposable income to spend downtown.
 
"the council felt that with the trend of adding 30 story buildings that this area was losing its original character"

By character do they mean poor, rundown, falling apart and full of homeless people? I'm okay with the area losing the character and building modern condos for people with disposable income to spend downtown.
I don't think its a fair argument to consider any architecture over a century old as "run down" - that's just the consequences of time - not the buildings fault, or the people who run it's fault. Many of the issues are interior aka in the walls and can't even be seen. Same with falling apart - just time. You think any of the modern builds are gonna be applicable for heritage protection - let alone survive 100 years? Doubtful.

By original character they mean an industrial era downtown with classical architecture, revivalist etc. I know you all just wanna bulldoze the entire downtown and put commie blocks everywhere but there is a lot worth saving. The interior of this is beautiful - the exterior once upon a time was nice too.

If you think having rich people here with disposable income is going to make all these homeless people magically disappear, think again - if anything it'll cripple the clientele who actually want to live here, BECAUSE they have disposable income, and don't want to be harassed by that when they can live elsewhere and not have that problem.

And it's a church, beside the good shephard building - of COURSE it's gonna have homeless - im sure the church probably also provided services for the homeless too - meals etc.
 
So basically we can expect this development to never happen? Once again the city has chased another developer out of town. Bravo Hamilton city hall, bravo.
 
So basically we can expect this development to never happen? Once again the city has chased another developer out of town. Bravo Hamilton city hall, bravo.
That's not what was said - merely that if he wants to develop he has to restore the existing building and incorporate it into his design - the developer already factored this potentiality in stating if this were to happen they'd only be able to make one tower not two.

Having to maintain heritage doesn't mean everything just stops.. The whole point of the heritage protection committee is to ensure the few pockets of heritage we have remain and are honoured and the roots of what made hamilton are kept, and that the whole city isn't just bulldozed to put up forgettable architecture just to house more people - as was said many times in the past there is more to a city than just "boxes to house people" - it has to have character and have a vibe that feels hamilton.

Hamilton is an old city, a steel city, an industrial city - and that will always be part of what makes it attractive, is that grit - that "we are blue collar, down to earth, and we are not toronto" vibe. Look at all the movies and shows that are filmed here - they are filmed here BECAUSE we have been able to maintain so much of our old architecture. Look at the umbrella academy. Hotel oblivion was the royal connaught, and the umbrella academy was the old bank building/embassy/mansion night club. Modern builds, esp the ones we get do not make a city "interesting" - a rich history and culture do, and aside from toronto hamilton is the only other city in the golden horseshoe that can trace its routes as a "thing" even further back than 1812 back to the fur trade when it was basically just called the city or town on the lake. I deeply empathize with their desires to not have that rich history bulldozed away merely for the sake of progress.

it's not "retain everything and never build anything new" or "bulldoze all the heritage and build commie blocks" - there can be a compromise. We have lots of fusion builds - calm down lol..
 
Last edited:
That's not what was said - merely that if he wants to develop he has to restore the existing building and incorporate it into his design - the developer already factored this potentiality in stating if this were to happen they'd only be able to make one tower not two.

Having to maintain heritage doesn't mean everything just stops..

it's not "retain everything and never build anything new" or "bulldoze all the heritage and build commie blocks" - there can be a compromise. We have lots of fusion builds - calm down lol..

Which will be cost prohibitive and they will never do. They'll take their business to Mississauga or KW where they won't face such bureaucracy. Hamilton is it's own worst enemy.
 
I am glad for the designation, though share some degree of Chron's confusion about all of what it means. My amateur understanding is that what this simply means is any significant alteration that would require a demo permit or building permit will now also need to be accompanied by a heritage permit which effectively serves to give City heritage staff permission to bless any plans that protect the legitimate heritage features of the building while veto-ing plans that do not. Further clarification welcome.

I am glad on this week in particular because a friend just shared with me some pictures and stories from a trip they took around Europe. In very special cases like Rome and Athens, 2,000 year old buildings are preserved, but in routine, everyday cases, 400-800 year old buildings continue to grace cities all over the place. Not just the special, beautiful, important ones, but some everyday homes, shops and churches, etc. Stories of the past that foster a sense of belonging in people don't automatically get shared by old buildings, but these buildings offer a connection that grounds people to the past in a way that people in our society are emotionally and mentally sick from lacking (as various Indigenous leaders have been pointing out about westerners for a long time, or see Gabor Mate on "dislocation" for a western perspective example).

Part of our history is that in North America we have zero 400+ year old buildings to preserve, so the present generation is faced with decisions between preserving the 100+ year old ones like this, or continuing to recycle buildings after one or two generations (see Hamilton City Centre closed for demo 30 years after opening, the old Barton Centre Mall lasting one generation, or the near-decision to demolish Copps Coliseum after 40 years to replace it with a new arena, etc etc).

So I'm glad we can preserve Philpott's old building even if it isn't stunning simply because nobody builds buildings like this anymore, though I think it does have an aesthetic worth preserving on the two facades facing the intersection.

I'm not sure what the implications of the designation will have on the potential incorporation of the historic sanctuary vs the possibility of a facadectomy. On the one hand, I appreciate that the beautiful sanctuary is surrounded by hallways that mock modern accessibility standards and that doesn't lend itself to obvious economically viable purposes so it seems logical to bless a facadectomy that allows for both high-rises to still be built here. On the other hand, music folks in Hamilton keep saying we're desperate for music venues with capacity around 1,200 and so enhancing (rather than demolishing) space that fits the bill in the heart of the entertainment district seems like a no-brainer.

@Chronamut the 277M referenced is revenue (a woefully low estimate), not total net profit.
@TheHonestMaple Development can certainly proceed here. The designation may not even diminish the number of housing units built one bit, depending on how heritage staff end up feeling about the interior.
 
Well said jta5. Not every building that is old has to be stunning - some just have to have significant history behind them or have inner beauty. Our history is important - I always feel a pang of sadness when I read "vanished hamilton", esp. when the beautiful buildings are replaced with something mundane like a parking lot or dollarama. We were lucky - due to suburbanification most of the downtown was left to rot vs being bulldozed over and modernized removing all character like a lot of other cities.

TheHonestMaple does have a point too - but it begs the question do we ONLY want developers that want to just build ikea grade architecture to just cram people into, like our vraniches, or do we want to foster developments that actually care about hamilton and want to preseve the old while incorporating in the new?

Honestly, I'd rather wait for the latter. We have too many boring designs being proposed as it is. At least leave the ones with significant history behind them alone for now.

I also FIRMLY believe due to the heritage nature of our old, yet crumbling downtown that all new condos should focus on a HERITAGE looking podium and a MODERN tower. It worked great for william thomas building.. it worked.. okay for cobalt, it's a recipe for success that pleases everyone. The people who like modern and height still get to have views from far away, which seems to be mainly what they care about , and the rest have something that feels warm and inviting on the ground floors like all the core urban enthusiasts, and we're not left with ground floors like vranich's that already look dated right after they're built - glazed first floors don't age well - just look at the one on james st near barton - that 1 or 2 story one - it starts to look extremely bad after say 20 years. Class over glass I say.
 
Last edited:

174 John St S​

well, at least it was when I went in there last - google maps shows it boarded up lol..

black and green building

That's The Cat 'N Fiddle. It recently re-opened under new ownership. It's no longer green, now black and white. Looks quite a bit different in side, no longer British looking, but same great live music - every night.
 
That's The Cat 'N Fiddle. It recently re-opened under new ownership. It's no longer green, now black and white. Looks quite a bit different in side, no longer British looking, but same great live music - every night.
Sigh, yet another trend to strip all character out of hamilton lol.. I was sad when capri remodeled and stripped all the character out of their interior for a more bland modernish look. I like to see cultures from other places, it tends to have a warmer feel.
 
I actually think it looks better black and white on the outside. I wish they'd put back up the British stuff on the inside though. Probably will accumulate that stuff again over time, it only opened a few months ago. I'm just happy to have daily live music on Augusta again. That's a huge improvement to the street.
 
I actually think it looks better black and white on the outside. I wish they'd put back up the British stuff on the inside though. Probably will accumulate that stuff again over time, it only opened a few months ago. I'm just happy to have daily live music on Augusta again. That's a huge improvement to the street.
Yeah Augusta is pretty happening these days :)

Now if only our actual core - gore park would get finished being rebuilt so it can be used for its original intended purpose..
 

Back
Top