Toronto 55 Eglinton East | 180.65m | 55s | State Building Group | Kirkor

So many on this forum rail against "investors", and with condo pre-sales down dramatically YoY - how does anyone on here expect the developer in this case (or others) to sell 80% of the 664 units before securing financing to start this project?
 
stevedean said:
So many on this forum rail against "investors", and with condo pre-sales down dramatically YoY - how does anyone on here expect the developer in this case (or others) to sell 80% of the 664 units before securing financing to start this project?
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They don't, and that's fine.

Inverstor-centric development doesn't address the housing crisis.

Investor boxes don't help. Particularly when some are also never rented (or lived in) at all.

Family-sized, and spacious, livable one bedroom purpose-built rental does address the needs of the City.

What we want is the right kind of housing that addresses the need in the community.

Condos, like apartments can also be built from cash reserves, they don't have to be debt-financed, it's just that many developers are set up to run that way, in part, because they've been under-capitalized since day one.
 
Northern Light said:
They don't, and that's fine.

Inverstor-centric development doesn't address the housing crisis.

Investor boxes don't help. Particularly when some are also never rented (or lived in) at all.

Family-sized, and spacious, livable one bedroom purpose-built rental does address the needs of the City.

What we want is the right kind of housing that addresses the need in the community.

Condos, like apartments can also be built from cash reserves, they don't have to be debt-financed, it's just that many developers are set up to run that way, in part, because they've been under-capitalized since day one.
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We can debate for hours how to fix the current housing crisis.

My point is that I highly doubt this building (or others recently announced) actually get built.
 
stevedean said:
We can debate for hours how to fix the current housing crisis.

My point is that I highly doubt this building (or others recently announced) actually get built.
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As proposed, as condos.........we'll see.

There is still a market, and some are selling; if interest rates drop another notch, we'll see some activity. But State is not exactly the most aggressive of builders.........(or sellers).......

So I think it's perfectly reasonable to imagine that this one may not make the cut under this proponent and form.

I do expect you'll see another round of proposals shift to Purpose-Built-Rental, with the City's incentives. I'm not convinced this will be one though.
 
...if this is a zoning exercise, I would have gone for something more upscale than Kirkor though. >.<
 
Northern Light said:
They don't, and that's fine.

Inverstor-centric development doesn't address the housing crisis.

Investor boxes don't help. Particularly when some are also never rented (or lived in) at all.

Family-sized, and spacious, livable one bedroom purpose-built rental does address the needs of the City.

What we want is the right kind of housing that addresses the need in the community.

Condos, like apartments can also be built from cash reserves, they don't have to be debt-financed, it's just that many developers are set up to run that way, in part, because they've been under-capitalized since day one.
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We definitely don't need investor-centric development, but I think we do need some studio type properties for investors. Not everyone can afford or need a family size condo space, and investors are one of the main way for rental units to be available. I absolutely hate the shoebox studio plus a wall being call a 1-bedroom. A mix of studios and 1 to 2 bedroom suits always makes sense to me. I guess this is what you meant?

Our rental vacancy rate is still below the healthy 3% benchmark so we definitely still need property investors along with some rental specific condos being built: https://thoughtleadership.rbc.com/m...ase-canadian-rental-market-pressures-in-2024/
 
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Tyrang said:
We definitely don't need investor-centric development, but I think we do need some studio type properties for investors. Not everyone can afford or need a family size condo space, and investors are one of the main way for rental units to be available. I absolutely hate the shoebox studio plus a wall being call a 1-bedroom. A mix of studios and 1 to 2 bedroom suits always makes sense to me. I guess this is what you meant?

Our rental rate is still below the healthy 3% benchmark so we definitely still need property investors along with some rental specific condos being built: https://thoughtleadership.rbc.com/m...ase-canadian-rental-market-pressures-in-2024/
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There are other, better ways to drive rental availability.

There was no investor-class shoebox construction in the mid 60s to late 70s when much of the rental housing stock we have today was built.

We had it right, we messed it up.
 
Northern Light said:
There are other, better ways to drive rental availability.

There was no investor-class shoebox construction in the mid 60s to late 70s when much of the rental housing stock we have today was built.

We had it right, we messed it up.
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I don't mean to turn this into a discussion around how things should work for rental market. I am not an investor myself but I used to live in 400 shoebox sqft condos not even that long ago, and that was what I could afford. When I look at how much studio cost.... it is currently between $450k to $550k in downtown. About 7 years ago, you can get a smaller 1 bedroom condo in DT for around $500k.

Time has changed and I agree that we have probably collectively messed up. But whether the solution being an alternative way to fix the issues, or we lower the average price for condo sales (and development), I think we can agree that investor units are prolly still needed until then?

Anyways, I very much respect your knowledge @Northern Light and want to learn more from you, as I have already since joining this forum. Thanks for your time :)
 
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Meeting for 55 Eglinton Ave East
 
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