Toronto 537 Broadview | 13.13m | 4s | Kanitz Properties | ERA Architects

So you've accused someone with a different perspective from yours of mansplaining... yet you also tell them that they can't understand the issues because they're not as old as you?


Another great advertisement for community consultations!
I see you have no problem with his insults toward me or the people of the neighbourhood. Yes i called out a "27" year old web ad photographer for acting like he was an expert on neighbourhood law and telling me "I didn't understand the issues"
 
that shows how much you don't know that neighbourhood - 20 years ago it wasn't even a part of toronto. It was east york.

Uhhhh.

As someone well into their forties, who grew up in East York..............537 Broadview was never in East York.

****

I'm more sympathetic to some of your arguments over architectural style than many here...........
But it does not serve those arguments well when you make emphatic statements that happen to be indisputably erroneous.

Many people here value heritage; and the look and feel of many established neighbourhoods; most, also want to see additional density in those same areas in order to address a demonstrable housing shortage.

Your position will be better taken if you seem sympathetic to that idea; and then argue for the type of architectural expression that would suit you most.

Not everyone will agree, that's fine.

But better to have honest differences in perspective discussed with a tad of diplomacy than an aggressive exchange.
 
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that shows how much you don't know that neighbourhood - 20 years ago it wasn't even a part of toronto. It was east york. you are young and you make snap judgements about people. My mom worked 3 jobs to pay for that home and it was not a wealthy neighbourhood then. It was an neighbouhood of artists. a real community. this was jack layton's neighbourhood. Only a block away is the bain street coop. a neighbourhood is a community and the problem is NOW the wealthy developers want to come in and make a profit. we worked hard to create a beautiful neighbourhood that is inclusive of all incomes. it's really only in the last 15 years that rich people have been coming and ripping up houses for profit. And they come in with their entitlement and lack of community understanding and they expect to fudge everyone else over. This is a rich developer wanting to make a buck at the cost of everyone else and not the other way round. I would also like to remind you that some of these houses were the final stop on the underground railroad for some people. There is real historic significance to these houses
Always interesting to see a complaint of someone else having limited knowledge that includes incorrect information. This area south of Danforth was not part of East York, it was part of Toronto pre-amalgamation.

Edit to add - I see @Northern Light beat me to it...
 
I see you have no problem with his insults toward me or the people of the neighbourhood. Yes i called out a "27" year old web ad photographer for acting like he was an expert on neighbourhood law and telling me "I didn't understand the issues"
As a lawyer, I can tell you there is no such thing as "neighbourhood law". In future, you might want to refer to this as municipal and planning law. Because I'm one of the good ones, I won't even charge you for this advice.
 
For the edification of all..........Plan of the City of Toronto, Signed by Villiers Sankey, City Surveyor, 1902

1628804012034.png


Taken from: https://maps.library.utoronto.ca/da...icTOmaps/1902Sankey.G_3524_T61_1902_fullf.jpg
 
Uhhhh.

As someone well into their forties, who grew up in East York..............537 Broadview was never in East York.

****

I'm more sympathetic to some of your arguments over architectural style than many here...........
But it does not serve those arguments well when you make emphatic statements that happen to be indisputably erroneous.

Many people here value heritage; and the look and feel of many established neighbourhoods; most, also want to see additional density in those same areas in order to address a demonstrable housing shortage.

Your position will be better taken if you seem sympathetic to that idea; and then argue for type of architectural expression that would suit you most.

Not everyone will agree, that's fine.

But better to have honest differences in perspective discussed with a tad of diplomacy than an aggressive exchange.
I appreciate your correction - I always wrote east york on my mail pre amalgamation. I didn't realise the border was further north. Here's the thing - I am expressing anger and frustration. That is the purpose of my post. Winning people over? I am one person in a tsunami of concrete and blu glass and rising maintenance fees, I doubt I'd have any sway. I assumed everyone on here is like that guy. Recently Daniels corporation built an "apartment building" the prices on the finished apartments are astronomical. $1600 for 300 square feet. this is a development corporation that's been given permission to tear down much needed subsidized housing under the guise of developing derelict property with the promise that they will keep units accessibly priced. This development is also under this city "program" - but I do not see good results from the program. I see a lot of developers taking advantage and not delivering on their promises. driving up rental prices and making the housing problems worse. You can't tell me that these particular apartments are about density and not the view, because there are loads of properties on Dundas that actually in need development. as well as ones on Sherbourne, shutter, College, Victoria park, main, Coxwell, the list goes on. Again, reno-evictions like this one are the cause of the housing shortage and not the solution. As for aesthetics, the plans on here do not clearly display how it will look and I really genuinely don't understand why they can't make the extension more like the house.
 
"27" year old web ad photographer

I don't really have the emotional capacity to continue this conversation but I will say this as a final piece

in my short life I have been to dozens of community meetings to advocate for projects I thought were good, and in almost every in-person meeting I was shouted at, talked over, told I was too young to understand, too ignorant, didn't know the neighbourhood, or was accused of being a paid developer plant (my personal favourite) Once a lady poked me right in the chest afterwards for saying something she found off putting, and each and every person who acted that way was well over 40.

Age is irrelevant - but the older folks sure do love belittling younger people when we speak up for what we think is right. This is why I am super pro never going back to in person community meetings. Now they're moderated, and everyone has a timed opportunity to say their piece, and the opportunities for abuse are far fewer.
 
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I don't really have the emotional capacity to continue this conversation but I will say this as a final piece

in my short life I have been to dozens of community meetings to advocate for projects I thought were good, and in almost every in-person meeting I was shouted at, talked over, told I was too young to understand, too ignorant, didn't know the neighbourhood, etc, once a lady poked me right in the chest afterwards for saying something she found off putting, and each and every person who acted that way was well over 40.

Age is irrelevant - but the older folks sure do love belittling younger people when we speak up for what we think is right. This is why I am super pro never going back to in person community meetings. Now they're moderated, and everyone has a timed opportunity to say their piece, and the opportunities for abuse are far fewer.
has it ever occurred to you that people give back the energy you put out? you came on here and told me I don't understand. I said the same thing back to you and you lost your mind. Like, got so right wing american level offended. it was literally the first thing you said to me. I just repeated it. I know you are one of those people that are sure they are right no matter the evidence, but dude, there's reason you get that energy back. SMH
 
Here's the thing - I am expressing anger and frustration. That is the purpose of my post. Winning people over? I am one person in a tsunami of concrete and blu glass and rising maintenance fees, I doubt I'd have any sway. I assumed everyone on here is like that guy.

I'm not certain that this proposal merits anger; perhaps, depending on one's taste, disappointment; but that's a subjective call.

Regardless; I think you'll find if you express yourself calmly, and with nuance, you'll find at least some audience here. Perhaps a minority, but nonetheless, some people with whom you might commiserate if nothing else; but also perhaps discuss ways to advance policies you would prefer.

Given that this is a forum full of urban planners, architects, engineers, developers, and activists of all stripes you're bound to find information that could prove useful to you; providing you leave people with a desire to engage.

You may encounter the odd inflammatory response; that's unfortunate, but over-reaction, particularly when new here will not serve you well.

Recently Daniels corporation built an "apartment building" the prices on the finished apartments are astronomical. $1600 for 300 square feet. this is a development corporation that's been given permission to tear down much needed subsidized housing under the guise of developing derelict property with the promise that they will keep units accessibly priced.

I'm not sure which property you're citing, and so can't engage critically.
I suspect though, that you'll find that at the very least any replaced units were put back at their original rents (plus inflation)
Additional units may well be priced substantially higher. But the particulars will vary site to site.

You can't tell me that these particular apartments are about density and not the view

I'm not sure why they can't be about both? Additional units are additional units with or without a view.

, because there are loads of properties on Dundas that actually in need development. as well as ones on Sherbourne, shutter, College, Victoria park, main, Coxwell, the list goes on.

Developers purchase properties from willing sellers, where they perceive a strong potential for return on investment.
That certainly includes looking at potential rent/purchase price of the end product. So certainly more desirable areas will get lots of looks from developers.

But there are also proposals going in at Main/Danforth and Main/Kingston Road right now; there is development coming to Coxwell/Gerrard and Coxwell/Danforth, and the immediate vicinity of Coxwell/Queen.
Victoria Park has substantial proposals going forward just north of Gerrard, beside the subway station and surrounding O'Connor/Eglinton.

These happen for a variety of reasons (City-owned land, more permissive zoning/densities, older developments coming due for renewal with larger property already in place....etc)

None of that precludes looking at opportunities on Broadview as well.

Again, reno-evictions like this one are the cause of the housing shortage and not the solution.

Renovictions are a real problem; though they are more a symptom of the housing shortage than a cause. The number of units at issue as compared to the scale of the shortage is not all that material.
Which makes it no less unfair to someone reno-victed.

As for aesthetics, the plans on here do not clearly display how it will look and I really genuinely don't understand why they can't make the extension more like the house.

Now that's a good contribution for discussion, which I will bring forward so everyone can see.

1628806130391.png


From: https://www.facebook.com/Kanitz-Pro.../photos/pcb.1905324376291338/1905324289624680
 
has it ever occurred to you that people give back the energy you put out? you came on here and told me I don't understand. I said the same thing back to you and you lost your mind. Like, got so right wing american level offended. it was literally the first thing you said to me. I just repeated it. I know you are one of those people that are sure they are right no matter the evidence, but dude, there's reason you get that energy back. SMH

The problem is you literally have no evidence, you're just upset your area is changing in a way you don't approve of and, to be truthful I feel kind of sorry for you! I can't imagine being so disconnected from my own city to the point that I would try and guard a neighbourhood like some medieval feudal territory. You are exhibiting a classic case of NIMBYism over a tiny 14 unit apartment addition, for no reason other than you don't like how it looks?

All you've done to me is call me young and stupid lol
 
I don't really have the emotional capacity to continue this conversation but I will say this as a final piece

in my short life I have been to dozens of community meetings to advocate for projects I thought were good, and in almost every in-person meeting I was shouted at, talked over, told I was too young to understand, too ignorant, didn't know the neighbourhood, or being accused of being a paid developer plant (my personal favourite) Once a lady poked me right in the chest afterwards for saying something she found off putting, and each and every person who acted that way was well over 40.

Age is irrelevant - but the older folks sure do love belittling younger people when we speak up for what we think is right. This is why I am super pro never going back to in person community meetings. Now they're moderated, and everyone has a timed opportunity to say their piece, and the opportunities for abuse are far fewer.
I'm a bit older than you, but similarly started caring young. I admire you for taking the time and putting yourself out there at meetings. It is difficult and important to prove that reactionaries are not the only ones out there or the only ones who matter.
 
I appreciate your correction - I always wrote east york on my mail pre amalgamation. I didn't realise the border was further north. Here's the thing - I am expressing anger and frustration. That is the purpose of my post. Winning people over? I am one person in a tsunami of concrete and blu glass and rising maintenance fees, I doubt I'd have any sway. I assumed everyone on here is like that guy. Recently Daniels corporation built an "apartment building" the prices on the finished apartments are astronomical. $1600 for 300 square feet. this is a development corporation that's been given permission to tear down much needed subsidized housing under the guise of developing derelict property with the promise that they will keep units accessibly priced. This development is also under this city "program" - but I do not see good results from the program. I see a lot of developers taking advantage and not delivering on their promises. driving up rental prices and making the housing problems worse. You can't tell me that these particular apartments are about density and not the view, because there are loads of properties on Dundas that actually in need development. as well as ones on Sherbourne, shutter, College, Victoria park, main, Coxwell, the list goes on. Again, reno-evictions like this one are the cause of the housing shortage and not the solution. As for aesthetics, the plans on here do not clearly display how it will look and I really genuinely don't understand why they can't make the extension more like the house.

If you are familiar with heritage preservation, you should already be familiar with the fairly prevalent philosophy of new builds being of it's own time - i.e. legibility:


7. Legibility
New work should be distinguishable from old. Buildings should be recognized as products of their own time, and new additions should not blur the distinction between old and new.


You shouldn't have to ask the why about something as basic as this.

AoD
 
looks great - modest - high quality materials, additional units, heritage retention. What's not to love?

this 1000x all over the city please

I think 'looks great' is probably overkill.
Certainly I wouldn't go that far.

Neither do I find it enraging.

I too value additional units, and heritage retention, those are indeed both pluses here. But the addition overall is a ho-hum box; I've certainly seen worse; but I've also seen much better.
I would be supportive of the proposal overall; but I can understand the argument of those who would object to a style that stands out in contrast to the prevailing aesthetic of the street.

I can't say I would favour a standard of duplicating the original architecture here, as I think that were it done properly, it would likely make the entire proposal cost-prohibitive and kill it.
But I would accept the notion that it could probably be of its time and yet a bit more sympathetic to the original. Perhaps a contrasting yellow brick that would still be 'today' yet not as jarring a re-set as black will? I also wouldn't mind rethinking the roofline treatment a bit, not mimicking the slant......but perhaps a nod to a cornice of some type. I don't see this as of enormous import, but neither do I think it would change the economics of the project materially, and if the locals preferred it, why not?
 

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