Toronto 357 King West | 148.13m | 42s | Great Gulf | BDP Quadrangle

[bmiller]

I got the impression from watching a news clip about the condo market, and it's possible cooling down, that a large number of sales are
from foreign buyers. There is obviously a lot of foreign buyers who are investing in the market here. I don't know if they are hiding money or
buying purely on speculation, but the local purchasers could tail off, and money from outside the country could still carry sales along. I assume
then that there are a lot of renters in these condos.

 

[Mike in TO]

Wow, they are claiming something other than the standard 70% sold. It seems that "70% sold" is the obligatory response from the sales staff of just about every project in sales.

Massey tower is well over 70% sold... overall market conditions are softening and the requirements announced by Flaherty are certainly going to have an impact... most projects are not experiencing the same 'launch' effect as others that had very strong openings this year (i.e. INDX, Massey Tower, Casa II and PSV). I'd also suggest that the media has recently been 'over-stating' the role of foreign buyers - yes they play a role, but not as much as what some journalists would try to lead the public to believe.

 

[taal]

How are condos selling in the 905 in comparison ?

I've heard a lot of the downtown Markham projects have a high number of investors.

 

[Mike in TO]

Toronto is down this year, 905 is doing pretty well - overall GTA #s are down by 22.4%

 

[buildup]

The economics don't make sense.
A 600 square foot condo sold at 700 a square foot is $420k. What 28 year-old who maybe makes 55k can afford 20% down, aka 80k? Which would mean they'd have to save 20k a year during their post-grad working years. MMMkkk.

(I realize there are are foreign buyers, but... my point is that the economic model of all of these towers appealing to first-time buyers doesn't make a lick of sense).

Where are you getting the 28 year-old making $55k assumption? More realistic are 30 year-old couples earning $100-$200k together.

 

[TheKingEast]

The economics don't make sense.
A 600 square foot condo sold at 700 a square foot is $420k. What 28 year-old who maybe makes 55k can afford 20% down, aka 80k? Which would mean they'd have to save 20k a year during their post-grad working years. MMMkkk.

(I realize there are are foreign buyers, but... my point is that the economic model of all of these towers appealing to first-time buyers doesn't make a lick of sense).

Not to mention, they still have to be approved for a mortgage.

I've send this oh so many times. The numbers make absolutely no sense. People are not really making the type of money to support the condo prices here. Isn't the average salary south of $40K? Yet the average condo price is north of $300K. Something does not make sense here since you're not getting approved for a $300K condo making $37-38K a year.

 

[TheKingEast]

Where are you getting the 28 year-old making $55k assumption? More realistic are 30 year-old couples earning $100-$200k together.

I don't believe this. Making 100K+ is not the norm in Toronto.

 

[innsertnamehere]

he said combined. 50k + 50k is 100k.

 

[cdr108]

he said combined. 50k + 50k is 100k.

he actually said $100-200K.

THAT'S a huge range and i can guarantee you the majority of 30 year-old couples do not earn anywhere near $200K unless they are professionals like doctors and lawyers.

 

[innsertnamehere]

yes, but 100k is within 100-200k. if you are earning 200k, you can afford a $600,000 condo, yet alone a $300,000.

 

[caltrane74]

I would say an average downtown couple is somewhere between 70 to 90k.

Above average over 100k

2 to 3 years of hard saving should get them to 50 to 80k in savings no sweat. More than enough for a down-payment on a condo.

 

[cdr108]

yes, but 100k is within 100-200k. if you are earning 200k, you can afford a $600,000 condo, yet alone a $300,000.

but the example quoted was a 600 sq ft condo sold at $700 psf for $420k.

that's on the edge of affordability for a couple earning $100k, even with ultra low interest rates of 3.5% for 5/25 yrs.
doesn't take into account if one loses a job, unexpected expenses, of when rates go back up.

 

[taal]

Toronto is down this year, 905 is doing pretty well - overall GTA #s are down by 22.4%

Do you have the break down per region ? i.e. Marham / MCC / North York / ... ?

 

[maestro]

The average 30 year isn't close to being coupled, no?

 

[greenleaf]

I would say an average downtown couple is somewhere between 70 to 90k.

Above average over 100k

2 to 3 years of hard saving should get them to 50 to 80k in savings no sweat. More than enough for a down-payment on a condo.

Caltrane is about right. Median household income for people living in downtown Toronto is about $75,000. [p5 of this report - 8 mb in pdf - http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2012/pg/bgrd/backgroundfile-45776.pdf]

I'm not sure about the 2-3 years of saving that much though. Most people have school loans or some other debt to pay off following graduation.