HelloToday
Active Member
This development couldn't happen fast enough. In with the new already ...
Toronto 327 Royal York Road | 118.5m | 35s | VANDYK | SvN
- Thread starter marcus_a_j
- Start date
DC83
Senior Member
Maybe Stanton bit off more than they could chew with their Hamilton condo project The Connolly.
A lot of complicated stuff on that site as they had to preserve 1/3 of the century-old Church on site.. which had some damage done to it by last week's wind storm(s).
Either way, I like both these projects so hopefully they both start soon! The Connolly has yet to release floor plans (despite tearing down 2/3 of the Church).
Jonny5
Senior Member
Uh-oh.
CBC: First-of-its-kind condo deal has been mired in financial troubles
Metrolinx has walked away from partnership with developer
CBC: First-of-its-kind condo deal has been mired in financial troubles
Metrolinx has walked away from partnership with developer
Amare
Senior Member
I love to see that the OMB continues to screw with the city's planning and mess up communities....good on them. Mark Grimes on the other hand was definitely promoting the development, and we can all smell the BS that he's spewing. The only "development" this guy looks out for are the condo developments where developers and lobbyists promise to give him some benefits in backroom deals. I'm surprised this guy hasn't been audited yet.
What's happening with this development is really unfortunate, and who knows if it will even ever be completed. But after reading that article, I would be happy if it isnt since there's nothing special with this one anymore.
The backroom deal accusation is ugly and cheap. Without proof of any kind on your part, I'm not letting a shot like that pass without a challenge. Totally empty words Amare, cynical, cowardly, and totally empty.
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moon2n
Active Member
Metrolinx sits back, what will happen next?
Amare
Senior Member
Challenge accepted, I respect when someone shares a different opinion from myself. Don't get me wrong, Grimes has made some substantial positive contributions to his ward which I support 100%. But lately i've have grown suspicious of some of the things he has done.
I'll give you a short summary of some of the more odd ones:
1) Mimico By-The-Lake: Essentially he wanted to give developers a break on certain requirements that would provide more of an incentive to develop the waterfront. Some of those breaks included: Waiving development charges, easing of heritage and low-income housing requirements. Most Councillors in the city usually argue for the opposite (especially in the case of low-income housing) and try to extract all they can from these developments (ie: Try to encourage developments to include more affordable housing units, Preserve heritage, and most of all actually receive development revenue). It's not like developers would need a break, I think the Humber Bay developments on their own would be enough of a catalyst.
More Info Here
2) Mimico Developments: Essentially the developer was only required to pay $150,000 in Section 37 benefits, instead of an agreed upon $250,000. A resident has filed a complaint to the integrity commissioner about this.
More Info Here
3)TTC Humber Loop/Park Lawn Loop: Here he has been trying to convince the TTC to relocate Humber Loop to Park Lawn Loop. On the surface it sounds normal right? Well the thing here is that the rest of the Ward (ie: Mimico, New Toronto, and Long Branch) need the increased service as well not just the residents of Humber Bay. What this really looks like, is that he's trying to get more transit service around the new developments as a way of providing incentives to developers who probably requested for more frequent service so they could market their projects easier. Humber Loop is fine where it is, the problem is along the entire Lake Shore strip where service is not adequate and it is not solely limited to Humber Bay.
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Okay, so…
The article you cite re 1) has nothing in it regarding giving developers a break on waived development charges, or any heritage concerns or low-income housing requirements. There's no word at all in there on what Section 37 monies were being put toward from that project (which happens to be Westlake Encore). Then Councillor Milczyn (from the next ward) was trying to get Section 37 monies dedicated to getting the Park Lawn loop built, but that mission just ends with a question mark.
In regards to 2), that's an allegation that has not been proven. The City of Toronto Integrity Commissioner has still to release any findings. There could be something there, but there might not be.
I don't really agree with you on there being any reason to impugn Grimes' motives re 3). The Humber Loop is no longer that great as an obvious turnaround point for some streetcars, otherwise we wouldn't be talking about this in the first place: it falls just short of where thousands of people have moved into Humber Bay Shores over the last decade or so. With thousands more to come, it will only become more important that the turnaround be moved further west. The question is to where. Getting the full complement of streetcars to Park Lawn would pretty much serve the increased population, but sure, people living to the west of that in more developmentally-stable Mimico would prefer increased frequency too… but then where should the new short turn be built to the west? If the TTC sensed that increased service was justified further west, then all streetcars would already be going through to either the turnaround at Kipling, or all the way to the end of the line. They don't however, and just complaining about poor service won't do much if the numbers aren't really there to make the case. You need more ridership west of Mimico to bring higher frequency; maybe increased enrolment at Humber College will someday justify more streetcars to the west.
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The article you cite re 1) has nothing in it regarding giving developers a break on waived development charges, or any heritage concerns or low-income housing requirements. There's no word at all in there on what Section 37 monies were being put toward from that project (which happens to be Westlake Encore). Then Councillor Milczyn (from the next ward) was trying to get Section 37 monies dedicated to getting the Park Lawn loop built, but that mission just ends with a question mark.
In regards to 2), that's an allegation that has not been proven. The City of Toronto Integrity Commissioner has still to release any findings. There could be something there, but there might not be.
I don't really agree with you on there being any reason to impugn Grimes' motives re 3). The Humber Loop is no longer that great as an obvious turnaround point for some streetcars, otherwise we wouldn't be talking about this in the first place: it falls just short of where thousands of people have moved into Humber Bay Shores over the last decade or so. With thousands more to come, it will only become more important that the turnaround be moved further west. The question is to where. Getting the full complement of streetcars to Park Lawn would pretty much serve the increased population, but sure, people living to the west of that in more developmentally-stable Mimico would prefer increased frequency too… but then where should the new short turn be built to the west? If the TTC sensed that increased service was justified further west, then all streetcars would already be going through to either the turnaround at Kipling, or all the way to the end of the line. They don't however, and just complaining about poor service won't do much if the numbers aren't really there to make the case. You need more ridership west of Mimico to bring higher frequency; maybe increased enrolment at Humber College will someday justify more streetcars to the west.
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Amare
Senior Member
That was my mistake on the first article, I linked it to the wrong one. I have updated the link so it should give you a better idea of what I am talking about there.
On your 3rd point I used to be of the same point of view as well, but when I started to think about it more it gave me some second thoughts. If the Park Lawn Loop was built, the TTC will simply use it as an excuse to provide terrible service West of Park Lawn and Grimes should know that. If that new loop ever gets built, service West of that point will deteriorate to the point residents can only rely on the 3 North-South routes for reliable service. I understand the logic of the numbers argument for demand west of Park Lawn, but that is the argument the TTC used for service west of Humber for years (prior to all the condos being built). I would even go as far as saying that if the new loop is built, they shouldn't even bother running streetcars to Long Branch and they might as well replace it with buses.
wopchop
Building Toronto
The fact of the matter is that, ever since streetcars returned to Lakeshore west in December 2014, after a lengthy period of construction, we saw service levels decreased to every 10 - 20 minutes. In the years previous to this, Lakeshore West was notorious for huge gaps between streetcars, and it wasn't uncommon to wait over 20 minutes for a car. If that's not a surefire way to kill ridership, then I don't know what is.
Filip
Senior Member
Ya the streetcars are ultimate garbage. I love it when they're replaced by buses. In fact I no longer sit on one - it's the 145 Express all the way baby!
wopchop
Building Toronto
Also, I think the argument that TTC isn't providing improved service to Long Branch because they don't sense a need for the service is a complete red herring.
They aren't providing this service, because to do so, requires sacrifices be made on the downtown service, probably because they don't have enough equipment.
When the streetcars are gone, they DO provide increased service levels on the buses. But when they come back, the frequency is dialed down because "streetcars have higher capacity than buses". Complete bullshit.
They aren't providing this service, because to do so, requires sacrifices be made on the downtown service, probably because they don't have enough equipment.
When the streetcars are gone, they DO provide increased service levels on the buses. But when they come back, the frequency is dialed down because "streetcars have higher capacity than buses". Complete bullshit.
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innsertnamehere
Superstar
The TTC hasn't had enough streetcars to meet crowding standards for decades. In the mid 90's it got really bad when the new spadina and queens quay routes opened up, with no new streetcar purchases. The St. Clair ROW project gave them a tiny bit of extra capacity (faster speeds means less streetcars needed to provide the same level of service), but not nearly enough. The new streetcars are expected to boost system capacity by 30%, which will give them a bit more leeway, but reality is that they are so far behind on capacity increases that most of that will be eaten up almost immediately. There is a reason the TTC is already requesting 60 more streetcars before even having the existing order delivered.
That said, expect frequencies to get worse before they get better. Most of that capacity increase will go to the busy routes like King and Queen (humber loop and east), not Lakeshore.
Remember, the further west the loop runs the more streetcars the TTC needs to have service run at existing frequencies. Building a loop at Park Lawn probably would only need 1 extra streetcar on the route, but to extend full service to Long Branch would mean a lot more cars.. something the TTC simply does not have.
That said, expect frequencies to get worse before they get better. Most of that capacity increase will go to the busy routes like King and Queen (humber loop and east), not Lakeshore.
Remember, the further west the loop runs the more streetcars the TTC needs to have service run at existing frequencies. Building a loop at Park Lawn probably would only need 1 extra streetcar on the route, but to extend full service to Long Branch would mean a lot more cars.. something the TTC simply does not have.
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Filip
Senior Member
Eliminate streetcar service in Etobicoke and get buses up in here. We like them more.
Simple.
Who's we? I prefer streetcars by quite a bit.
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