Toronto 2475 Dundas Street West | 109.67m | 29s | Fairway | BDP Quadrangle

[milkycontent]

The Kill Bill sirens are sounding off in Gord Perks' brain right now.

 

[jmi22]

The Kill Bill sirens are sounding off in Gord Perks' brain right now.

LMAO i didn't want to be the first person to start dumping on him but yes. I imagine he spent his weekend fielding phone calls from 'concerned residents' of the West Bend Community Association.

 

[Grimace]

No pics but there are some strongly worded responses to the posted development notices that may or may not have been spray-painted by Gord Perks.

Full disclosure, I am biased as I live in and own a detached house on Glenlake that is literally across the street from this. I buy flowers and Christmas trees from the corner flower guy and was a Hula Girl regular before it was sold.

But I am also pro-development. I 100% support the new 26 (?) story rental north of Crossways that Perks opposed, which resulted in no benefit to the city due to the opposition. I argued with Perks on my doorstep 14 years ago about the Giraffe, though it should be recognized that the Giraffe was a rare rejection by the OMB because of how small the site was and not just on height grounds.

I don't know what this new Fairway has in mind by proposing two new developments in the area (they also have the Bloor Tim Hortons) that are far in excess of height norms. I'm guessing that they have focused on compiling sites and want to upgrade for purposes of flipping them. I'm not in the industry. But in my casual observation of Toronto development projects this seems to be one of the most ambitious from a height perspective.

Would love to see more 8-10 story developments along Dundas including this location. The ones just to the north are exactly what the area needs. 29 stories just seems kind of silly. It is a tiny site. The 26 story building on the west side is next to a railroad. It has an 8 story building on Dundas.

The most important things for this area are for the Freshco site and the Loblaws site south of Bloor to be properly developed. Advancing sites on the west side of Dundas before the rail-adjacent east side sites are properly done is premature. I am hopeful that the Freshco site will get their act together. Choice Properties is a basketcase because Loblaws only cares about their very successful grocery store business. I mean, just look at Queen's Quay -- they can't even figure out what to do with one of the best development properties in the city. I will be in a grave before they decide what to do with Bloor/Dundas.

 

[jmi22]

I understand such levels of density at what has long been the western edge of the core as seeming odd, but the transportation capacity of the area is rapidly changing. With the Kitchener Line being brought up to 15 minute frequeinces all day + bi-directional fingers crossed in the next few years, and UPX already running a express metro service, the station is functionally an interchange. The usefullness of the KT Line for inner city travel is also about to spike, with Mount Dennis GO soon to open and King Liberty GO + Stockyards GO starting construction soon. Add two streetcar lines, two bus lines, Line 2, and high quality cycling connections along the West Toronto Rail Trail (also soon to be extended) and this is going to be the second best connected station in Canada.

IMO anything sub 30 stories is coming no where close to meeting demand to live in this area and the typical height proposed will continue to sharply increase.

 

[Northern Light]

Would love to see more 8-10 story developments along Dundas including this location. The ones just to the north are exactly what the area needs. 29 stories just seems kind of silly. It is a tiny site. The 26 story building on the west side is next to a railroad. It has an 8 story building on Dundas.

I broadly agree, though I can see a case for greater height at this location.

The most important things for this area are for the Freshco site and the Loblaws site south of Bloor to be properly developed.

Agreed, removing the surface parking is low-hanging fruit/highly desirable.

Advancing sites on the west side of Dundas before the rail-adjacent east side sites are properly done is premature.

Developers can only advance sites they own, and have no particular desire, in most cases, to sit on them indefinitely. Though, they could easily obtain the zoning and then not proceed right of way if the market wasn't right.

Choice Properties is a basketcase because Loblaws only cares about their very successful grocery store business. I mean, just look at Queen's Quay -- they can't even figure out what to do with one of the best development properties in the city. I will be in a grave before they decide what to do with Bloor/Dundas.

I don't think that's a fair take. Choice is working at developing many sites, and they've actually completed some (Bathurst - Lakeshore as an example)

In the case of Bloor/Dundas the hold up has been the School Board, clearly the proposal works better for everyone if there is a land swap and Choice gets the current High School and builds a new one at the south end of the property.

However, last I heard, the TDCSB was being uncooperative. (they are the tenant at a TDSB owned site)

 

[Grimace]

I appreciate that developers can only develop their own sites but the Freshco site is already in the mix and based on the last post in that thread it is before the design committee. The earlier massing on Freshco had the far north building at 18 stories and a further drop on the west side would be fitting especially given the much smaller site and the 6 story condo on the north side of Glenlake. This would have been a good step down set up and would allow for increasing heights to the south going down the Giraffe site which I guess is on the market again.

The current massing has a 37 story building on the north end of the Freshco site. This will lead to a steep drop after Glenlake if they allow something closer to 19 here.

Dundas Bloor is a good transportation hub but there is a lot of developable land nearby and the tunnel from the subway will increase UPX and GO traffic from people outside the area. UPX is already at capacity during rush hour despite reduced numbers of people going downtown and the tunnel to the subway currently under construction will only increase that. The GO train is not a bad alternative and offers significant additional capacity if they start running every 15 mins, but the FreshCo and Loblaws sites are HUGE. The 3 developments of townhouses on the east side of the tracks underutilize the area and that was a planning failure but I disagree that good urban planning calls for more than 10 stories on tight land assemblies with less than a 100 ft depth adjacent to a residential community.

 

[Grimace]

I understand such levels of density at what has long been the western edge of the core as seeming odd, but the transportation capacity of the area is rapidly changing. With the Kitchener Line being brought up to 15 minute frequeinces all day + bi-directional fingers crossed in the next few years, and UPX already running a express metro service, the station is functionally an interchange. The usefullness of the KT Line for inner city travel is also about to spike, with Mount Dennis GO soon to open and King Liberty GO + Stockyards GO starting construction soon. Add two streetcar lines, two bus lines, Line 2, and high quality cycling connections along the West Toronto Rail Trail (also soon to be extended) and this is going to be the second best connected station in Canada.

IMO anything sub 30 stories is coming no where close to meeting demand to live in this area and the typical height proposed will continue to sharply increase.

The transportation situation is not rapidly changing, it is basically where it was at 10 years ago when the UPX opened (or at least 9 years ago when they dropped prices) with some marginal improvement to GO service and now they are putting in a tunnel to the TTC, which will support people from outside the area. Before COVID the UPX was completely overcapacity and now it is about capacity in rush hour. The GO trains that stop at Bloor and take a little longer to get to Union continue to have lots of room and if habits change are a decent alternative for when the UPX inevitably reaches overcapacity again.

To the extent the city or the area have changed that much since people thought (wrongly) that it was appropriate to put in stacked townhomes on the east side of the tracks, it has changed due to COVID and people are not traveling downtown anywhere near as much.

 

[rdaner]

I just want to add that since I moved here 6 years ago there have been a few significant changes to travel patterns that are now noticeable on the streets around Bloor Station. The first is that the amount of airport traffic has exploded with travellers, crew and airbnbs popping up. The second trend is that Bloor has become a big destination for night-time traffic with people getting off there to access the dozens of clubs and bars that exist now in the West End.

 

[WetPaint]

I can second this, having moved in the last couple years from a little further west. Anecdotal but there was an unlicensed Airbnb in the unit below me, and there’s always a group with suitcases waiting to get into one on the south side of Bloor.

Like others in the thread have said, with Kitchener fourth track construction underway and the value village soon to become a new Barrie line station we’re likely to see the trend continue.

I just want to add that since I moved here 6 years ago there have been a few significant changes to travel patterns that are now noticeable on the streets around Bloor Station. The first is that the amount of airport traffic has exploded with travellers, crew and airbnbs popping up. The second trend is that Bloor has become a big destination for night-time traffic with people getting off there to access the dozens of clubs and bars that exist now in the West End.

I was out in the neighborhood tonight and noticed these flyers objecting to the project have been posted around:

I look forward to attending these meetings myself to offer a counter.

 

[AlbertC]

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2461-2475 Dundas Street West Community Consultation Meeting​

Monday, September 16, 2024 6:00 PM - 8:00 PM
(UTC-04:00) Eastern Time (US & Canada)

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Host​

Victoria Fusz

Agenda​

Join us for a Virtual Community Consultation Meeting to learn more about the proposed development application, which will include presentations and a Question and Answer period providing local residents and stakeholders the opportunity to ask questions and provide feedback.

 

[lemon2]

Hey, I'm new here (and to the Toronto housing scene in general). I own and live in a detached house about 5 min walk from this site. I noticed the truly stupid signs in the neighbourhood over the past 2 weeks -- fun fact, the first sign (posted above) was so bad that they replaced them all TWICE with slightly better, but still awful signs.

Anyway, I joined the community consultation last night (my first one) but it was entirely 2 hours of pearl clutching about traffic, shadows, etc. That didn't surprise me. What did surprise me was that the city staff Victoria Fusz and Gord Perks both openly said that they were opposed to this, and would be fighting it. Should I have been surprised by this? Maybe not.

Some questions I have:
- What are people's thoughts on Gord Perks? He's only been my councillor for a year, and I had a positive impression based on his background and cycling advocacy, but I was pretty disappointed by his open hostility yesterday.
- What are the odds this project, and projects like this, go through anyway? Can the handful of folks concerned about their precious laneway (the laneway came up over and over again like it was central to their lives) still stop 300 units being constructed minutes from Dundas West Station and the Bloor Go station? They explained that it would either end up in mediation or at the Ontario Land Tribunal, but Idk how backed up the OLT is.
- Can I more actively YIMBY? I was hoping to work with my councillor to advocate for such change in my neighbourhood, but after last night I'm thinking that will be a waste of time. Both my partner and I made supportive comments, the only supportive comments of the night, and were very politely but clearly ignored ("Thank you so much for that perspective, we're now gonna take a question from this concerned resident about the width of the sidewalk").

 

[vic]

Perks has always come across as the Super-NIMBY for that area. I've kept an eye on Dundas-Bloor area developments for the last 15-ish years, as I also live nearby.

What made city staff oppose it? Just the height?

 

[70Challenger]

Clean looking design with some nice ground level texture.

 

[lemon2]

I asked for a summary, but they basically said "you can read that when I submit the report in a few weeks, it's too early to share". Gord commented that it was highly unusual for city staff to announce their opposition this early, though I don't know whether that's actually true.

In general, though, Victoria seemed receptive to the NIMBYist opinions around the impact it'll have on the laneway, traffic, etc. She was definitely much more neutral (or at least trying to stay credibly neutral) than Gord, who was straight-up ripping into the developers and the project.

 

[Northern Light]

Hey, I'm new here (and to the Toronto housing scene in general).

Welcome to UT.

Anyway, I joined the community consultation last night (my first one) but it was entirely 2 hours of pearl clutching about traffic, shadows, etc.

I think its important to say that both of these can be entirely legitimate issues. The leafy trees in your neighbourhood need a certain number of hours of sunlight each day, like any other plant, in order to survive, and a perpetual traffic jam is not a desirable thing for a neighbourhood even if one is walking/cycling or taking a bus stuck in said traffic

Of course, these issues are also often exaggerated, with irrational levels of fear/fear-mongering and insufficient evidence to support a point of view.

That didn't surprise me. What did surprise me was that the city staff Victoria Fusz and Gord Perks both openly said that they were opposed to this, and would be fighting it. Should I have been surprised by this? Maybe not.

That doesn't surprise me from Gord at all, I've known Gord for wow........pretty much 30 years..........

Victoria, I expect is following a mixture of pro-forma planning policy with some understanding of where Gord sits on the idea. I would need to hear the actual planning arguments to discuss the merits.

Some questions I have:
- What are people's thoughts on Gord Perks? He's only been my councillor for a year, and I had a positive impression based on his background and cycling advocacy, but I was pretty disappointed by his open hostility yesterday.

Gord has not been a particular good cycling advocate over the years, and in fact, until recently was an obstruction to fixing all the issues on Parkside. He's not a bad guy, I mostly like him, LOL, but he isn't necessarily
what you might think in terms of what he opposes/supports.

- What are the odds this project, and projects like this, go through anyway?

Something will likely go through here, there is real money at play. How hard the developer fights for this vision will likely depend, in part, on how much they paid for the assembly/options for same, and how solid they think their case is for their ask.

They will get midrise here w/o any issue, the question is how high they can go.

On the OLT, It still varies quite a bit, but in general, I'd expect a Merit Hearing about a year after filing the appeal, these days.

- Can I more actively YIMBY? I was hoping to work with my councillor to advocate for such change in my neighbourhood, but after last night I'm thinking that will be a waste of time. Both my partner and I made supportive comments, the only supportive comments of the night, and were very politely but clearly ignored ("Thank you so much for that perspective, we're now gonna take a question from this concerned resident about the width of the sidewalk").

I don't think contributing is ever a waste of time.

I think you need to assume some development will happen here. It may resemble this proposal or it may get a haircut/re-massing.

I probably wouldn't spend a lot of time on pro-development arguments at this stage, but what I would do is pitch solutions to any complaints you may see as a legitimate, to hopefully achieve a better development that gets approval.