Toronto 2015 Pan American Games

[junctionist]

Hip hop is obviously music. To say otherwise is ignorant. Music is organized and structured sound. Hip hop is clearly organized and structured sound. With hip hop, the vocals are the melody, the sampling or synthesized sounds are the harmony, and the beat provides an underlying rhythm.

Not all producers sample--some compose their harmonies and rhythms on computers and synths. When they sample, they normally give credit to the original artist in the album's liner notes. Sampling isn't a weakness; it's part of an art form. You have to find samples that suit the mood of the song and the meaning of the new song's lyrics. Talented producers will combine samples from different artists into one song and make it sound good, like a collage. In a way, it's like how postmodern architecture references classical or Art Deco styles in a modern facade that is an original work.

In the end, a good rapper also tends to be a good lyricist, which takes talent. Hip hop songs can have lyrics laden with meaning like poetry. Sometimes, they form the narrative to a story. That's why there's a website devoted to interpreting and explaining the lyrics, like "Halftime" by Nas.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Music is organized and structured sound.

I will offer the John Cage's 4'33" as an argument that it doesn't even have to be that.

AoD

 

[TheTigerMaster]

It isn't my opinion that they should be hiring Drake over Kanye....my opinion is they should not include rap as a genre in the show period...let alone headlining and constituting the majority of the performances of the musical portion of the ceremony. It's in poor taste and shows just how farcical the marketing management of these games has been.

Hip-hop/rap is one of the most popular genres in the world, if it isn't already the most popular. And we do have plenty of data to suggest that it is most popular. The fact that you'd suggest that rap shouldn't even be included in the show just shows how out of touch you are with music.

 

[Armour]

Where do you get your synths?

Not all synths sample or mimick other instruments. Led Zeppelin? Depeche Mode?
If I were to guess that you're of the mind that any music post-1990 is crap, would I be correct?

These kids.....when I was young, we used to sing and play instruments.

Just ribbin ya....though I find your opinions on the subject...um, bizaarre.

What would you call this unmusic?

Nope. Plenty of good music was released in the 90s; I can't say the say the same re the last 15+ years, however. And I'm not as old as you probably think. I'm only in my early 30s.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Hip hop is obviously music. To say otherwise is ignorant.

I make a distinction between rap and hip hop. Hip hop is a cultural movement that has very fuzzy boundaries and crosses over into everything these days. It's also incredibly over-saturated the mainstream culture. There's always been "music" that can be considered part of the hip hop style or influenced by it.

But rapping on the other hand, is not really "singing" and the beat that may accompany it is generally not really "music". And the popular versions of it is just plain bad, regardless of what you want to label it.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Nope. Plenty of good music was released in the 90s; I can't say the say the same re the last 15+ years, however. And I'm not as old as you probably think. I'm only in my early 30s.

Damn. I'd hate to see your attitude about life in 20 years.

 

[Armour]

Also, I'd like to point out that immense skill goes into producing music using synths.

...or unmusic or whatever the stuff I listen to is supposed to be called now.

Also, I'd like to point out that immense skill goes into producing music using synths.

...or unmusic or whatever the stuff I listen to is supposed to be called now.

I never said that The Prodigy and other groups that use synths don't make music. I said that hip hop and rap aren't music. Neither really involve the creation of organic, original melodies. They contain beats that are usually derived variations of classic rock, R&B and funk songs. There is more musicality in one stomping their feet and singing a capella than there is in any given rap song.

 

[freshcutgrass]

Hip-hop/rap is one of the most popular genres in the world, if it isn't already the most popular. And we do have plenty of data to suggest that it is most popular.

I'm not disputing this. I'm just saying that it isn't a good thing, and we should do our best to change this sad fact. I'm just saying let's show a little class while the spotlight is on us. If we have to provide a little bit of that. then at least pick something less comical than Kanye. k-os is homegrown and a notch or two above Kanye in talent.

 

[junctionist]

I make a distinction between rap and hip hop. Hip hop is a cultural movement that has very fuzzy boundaries and crosses over into everything these days. It's also incredibly over-saturated the mainstream culture. There's always been "music" that can be considered part of the hip hop style or influenced by it.

But rapping on the other hand, is not really "singing" and the beat that may accompany it is generally not really "music". And the popular versions of it is just plain bad, regardless of what you want to label it.

Even rap is music on its own. A rapper organizes his speech to be rhythmic. Rhythm is the most fundamental part of music. The rapper also controls the tones of his voice while he raps to emphasize certain lyrics, which is in essence a melody. You could even record someone just talking (not even rapping) and play it over and over in a rhythm to form music. That's what Steve Reich does on Different Trains.

 

[Armour]

It's a lot more difficult to pick up an instrument and create something that never existed previously -- and that is a product of one's own imagination -- than it is to borrow ideas from others or to alter extant programmed settings into something of your own. With hip hop pop the talent largely lies with the producers and engineers. In other genres those individuals merely illuminate the profiency and creativity of the musicians.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

There is more musicality in one stomping their feet and singing a capella than there is in any given rap song.

Lol okay.

 

[Armour]

That wasn't sarcasm. Singing is something rappers don't do and stomping one's foot provides the rhythm (substituting for the absence of instrumentation). Rappers basically talk into a microphone and have an accompanying beat (a process they generally have no part in) carry their message.

 

[Armour]

I would love to know someone like Van Morrison's (a singer-songwriter/poet in the truest sense) thoughts on this topic

 

[freshcutgrass]

Even rap is music on its own.

No...rapping is talking, and talking is talking...not music. And it's usually very bad talking to boot.

A rapper organizes his speech to be rhythmic. Rhythm is the most fundamental part of music.

Even if that's true, it still doesn't mean anything with rhythm is music. Otherwise my dishwasher is making music.

 

[Armour]

No...rapping is talking, and talking is talking...not music. And it's usually very bad talking to boot.





Even if that's true, it still doesn't mean anything with rhythm is music. Otherwise my dishwasher is making music.

Today's rappers, with their idiotic ebonics, make the sloppy English of old blues guys like Robert Johnson, sound Shakespearean in comparison. To call rappers poets is a riot. Poetry requires fluent literature for starters.