Toronto 2015 Pan American Games

[Tewder]

How many 10m divers are there in the country? How many in Ontario that have to go out of province? I'll bet the number is less than 100 and maybe less than 10. Please use that number to divide the millions of dollars in public money being used to build this diving tank and tell me how much it's going to cost the government to fund a sport which shows up on your, and everyone else in Canada's, radar once every four years.

Y'all are hopin' and prayin'. But, hell, I really don't care if you want to fund a dive tank. Just leave my tax dollars out of it.

Oh this is a fun game indeed, just what do I not want the government spending 'my' tax dollars on? Anybody else care to play?? Come on, ya'll don't be a-feared now.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Oh this is a fun game indeed, just what do I not want the government spending 'my' tax dollars on? Anybody else care to play?? Come on, ya'll don't be a-feared now.

Mrs. RRR + I had this same conversation at dinner today, and she agreed with you. So, I will harden my position accordingly. Any and all sporting activity beyond recreational level sports and swimming lessons should not be paid for, in any way, shape or form, by government money. If y'all can figure out a way to have a Pan Ams or Oly without dipping into the public purse, I will stop objecting.

And... Seriously? Did you just say that you want your tax dollars to go to sports? Instead of infrastructure? Health? Social programs?

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Oh this is a fun game indeed, just what do I not want the government spending 'my' tax dollars on? Anybody else care to play?? Come on, ya'll don't be a-feared now.

BTW, did you come up with that estimate of the number of divers in Canada? Not that it matters to me anymore, but just sayin' that a non sequiter should be greeted with a non sequiter...

 

[Tewder]

And... Seriously? Did you just say that you want your tax dollars to go to sports? Instead of infrastructure? Health? Social programs?

You are teetering at the top of a very slippery slope there. In other words, why not cut out the arts while you're at it? Heritage preservation? Chop! Conservation? kiss it good-bye... and so on. Are athletics or any of these things 'essential' in a life-and-death way? Obviously not... and yet, there is far more to the notion of 'quality of life' than the bare bones funding of immediate needs you refer to... and yes we are healthier, happier, more sane and more successful as a society for these things.

 

[TOperson]

You are teetering at the top of a very slippery slope there. In other words, why not cut out the arts while you're at it? Heritage preservation? Chop! Conservation? kiss it good-bye... and so on. Are athletics or any of these things 'essential' in a life-and-death way? Obviously not... and yet, there is far more to the notion of 'quality of life' than the bare bones funding of immediate needs you refer to... and yes we are healthier, happier, more sane and more successful as a society for these things.

It's not a slippery slope. We can choose to fund some things and not others, to fund many things at varying levels, and to change the mix at any time.

 

[TOareaFan]

And... Seriously? Did you just say that you want your tax dollars to go to sports? Instead of infrastructure? Health? Social programs?

Well, there are some who might suggest that sports is an important part of, both, health and social programs.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

Well, there are some who might suggest that sports is an important part of, both, health and social programs.

Those who would suggest that would be gratified i agree with them and specifically excluded rec sports and swimming lessons from my chops.

And, no, I don't think it's a slippery slope at all. It's a specific target - high performance sports.

 

[Red October]

High performance sports inspire both a sense of pride and a desire to replicate. It's a reason a lot of kids get into certain sports.

Personally, I don't think I would have started swimming competitively in high school if it weren't for watching swimmers like Michael Phelps and the like in Athens. I mean I was always a strong swimmer, and I knew I was going to get my NLS anyway, but I had never considered swimming competitively.

 

[Tewder]

Yes, it is healthy for a society to have access to athletics and the arts at the very highest of levels. It's an investment in our society, as important as the investments we make in education and research and so on. The spill-overs are enormous.

 

[TOperson]

Yes, it is healthy for a society to have access to athletics and the arts at the very highest of levels. It's an investment in our society, as important as the investments we make in education and research and so on. The spill-overs are enormous.

Could you provide some research or evidence to support this claim that investments in elite athletics are "as important" as education, or that the spill-overs are "enormous"? Enormously what?

 

[Tewder]

I'm not sure I understand what 'elite' athletics are, so no. That's your terminology, not mine.

As a society we invest in athletics and the arts for the same reasons we invest in education, namely because they promote individual growth and therefore the growth of society as a whole. Simple really.

 

[Thanos]

It's not a slippery slope. We can choose to fund some things and not others, to fund many things at varying levels, and to change the mix at any time.

Fine, i choose to no longer support conservation matters. I do not want a single dollar from my tax money to be spent on that.

Oh wait.....that's not how life works.

 

[Thanos]

Could you provide some research or evidence to support this claim that investments in elite athletics are "as important" as education, or that the spill-overs are "enormous"? Enormously what?

Are you implying that sport particiaption does not provide a healthy lifestyle which reduces health spending by our governments? Are you serious?

 

[TOperson]

I'm not sure I understand what 'elite' athletics are, so no. That's your terminology, not mine.

As a society we invest in athletics and the arts for the same reasons we invest in education, namely because they promote individual growth and therefore the growth of society as a whole. Simple really.

I was following on from your exchanges with RRR, who made it clear he was referring to "high performance sports" (aka elite athletics), not recreational/community sports. I think everyone here agrees that the latter promote growth, etc. The former, however, are highly debatable. Since you rebutted RRR, do you have any evidence to support the idea that elite sports promote individual growth, etc?

 

[TOperson]

Are you implying that sport particiaption does not provide a healthy lifestyle which reduces health spending by our governments? Are you serious?

I said "investments in elite athletics", not all athletics everywhere.

I was following on the exchange between Tewder and RRR, who made it clear that he does favour supporting recreational/community sports, i.e. sports for regular people. Elite/high performance sports are another matter.

I agree that rec/comm'y sports are good for the general population (though I think there are other barriers to participation than simply govt investment in facilities). But big govt investment in facilities for elite athletes does not appear to improve fitness in the general population. If there is good evidence to say that it does, I would like to see it. Do you know of any?