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Toronto 2015 Pan American Games

And actually, not to be a stickler, but Lillehammer really struggled post-olympics. They didn't do enough branding and tourism related spending and something like 40% of the hotels and a couple of the alpine slopes in the area went bankrupt in the years following the games.

I think that is the key. A city that hosts the Olympics only to show it can will fail. A city that host the Olympics to build useful infrastructure and advertise, advertise, advertise will succeed. When people think of skiing in Europe they will still not think Lillehammer. If people think of must see destinations they will still not think Lillehammer. I'm not sure if Lillehammer could have done better or not.

Not all places can be successful at making themselves a destination through promotion. Any place that cannot turn themselves into a must see destination from not previously being one and who don't already have suitable facilities, really shouldn't host an Olympics. Places that are already major destinations on the tourism map and don't already have facilities will get little benefit from the Olympics. Places which cannot transform into must see destinations because their size or attractions beyond the Olympic facilities are insignificant should not host the Olympics. Places which can really be a tourist destination and simply need exposure to push them into the public eye will benefit most from the Olympics. Places which already have the facilities, like Los Angeles did, also can host the Olympics with a net gain.

When considering whether Toronto should host the Olympics we need to ask ourselves... could Toronto be a must-see tourist destination on the North American map, is it currently off the must-see list, and if new facilities are built will they be well utilized post Olympics. If the answers are Yes to all then we would benefit.
 
I agree that there would be pressure to build a nice stadium. Nothing wrong with it if Toronto is guaranteed an NFL team though. I'd rather that than building a fancy stadium that would go unused afterwards. I guess it depends on how much money an NFL team would be able to generate in tax revenue. I'm sure over time those taxes would pay for the stadium. Third, considering the roller coaster of an economy that Vancouver and London have faced while building their infrastructure its no wonder the costs of these games have inflated. In 2003 no one thought oil would jump to $150 within a few years. That's 4 or 5 times the price when the bids were made. Cost of materials would of course rise. Ya, there should be some margins for error that should have been taken into consideration, but the fluctuation in oil might be one of the most significant price increases of any one product in our generation and its understandable why those weren't accounted for.
There is no guarantee of an NFL team (I'd say the chances are slim), but the idea of taxpayer's money building a stadium for an American sports enterprise owned (in essence if not in name) by rich corporations like Rogers and/or MLSE is abhorrent to me. And the idea that tax revenue would pay for a stadium is laughable, unless one expects it to be used for a few hundred years. One only needs to see the history of the publicly-built stadium known as Skydome as a guide to the future of a Toronto Olympic Stadium. The public would get hosed when it's built and when it's ultimately sold.

Sorry, I don't buy the oil excuse. Oil didn't reach $80 until late 2007, but even with that, with Iraq already invaded when the bid was won in June 2003, wild fluctuations in oil should have been taken into account. But then that assumes the original cost estimates were made in good faith instead of with the intention of putting the bid in the best light possible (i.e. they lied).
 
I think that is the key. A city that hosts the Olympics only to show it can will fail. A city that host the Olympics to build useful infrastructure and advertise, advertise, advertise will succeed. When people think of skiing in Europe they will still not think Lillehammer. If people think of must see destinations they will still not think Lillehammer. I'm not sure if Lillehammer could have done better or not.

Not all places can be successful at making themselves a destination through promotion. Any place that cannot turn themselves into a must see destination from not previously being one and who don't already have suitable facilities, really shouldn't host an Olympics. Places that are already major destinations on the tourism map and don't already have facilities will get little benefit from the Olympics. Places which cannot transform into must see destinations because their size or attractions beyond the Olympic facilities are insignificant should not host the Olympics. Places which can really be a tourist destination and simply need exposure to push them into the public eye will benefit most from the Olympics. Places which already have the facilities, like Los Angeles did, also can host the Olympics with a net gain.

When considering whether Toronto should host the Olympics we need to ask ourselves... could Toronto be a must-see tourist destination on the North American map, is it currently off the must-see list, and if new facilities are built will they be well utilized post Olympics. If the answers are Yes to all then we would benefit.

I think the answer is yes to all of those. I really see Toronto in the same light as a Sydney or a Barcelona. A secret that is waiting to be exposed. The product, the infrastructure, the ability is all there, it's just a matter of getting the word out that Toronto actually exists. It's an expensive marketing campaign, but there isn't anything else in the world that compares. A comparable example, though small, is from the 2006 Masters when tiger woods made that chip shot on the 16th hole that was replayed endlessly over and over. The replaying of that footage was worth $1million in marketing just a few days after the event. Imagine a great and memorable event happening in Toronto with the CN Tower behind it, or anything Toronto related really. How many millions would that be worth? And that's just one small bit of the pie. Having your city be the lead story in every paper and on every channal is a marketing dream really. Why every city wouldn't want that, I don't know.

There is no guarantee of an NFL team (I'd say the chances are slim), but the idea of taxpayer's money building a stadium for an American sports enterprise owned (in essence if not in name) by rich corporations like Rogers and/or MLSE is abhorrent to me. And the idea that tax revenue would pay for a stadium is laughable, unless one expects it to be used for a few hundred years. One only needs to see the history of the publicly-built stadium known as Skydome as a guide to the future of a Toronto Olympic Stadium. The public would get hosed when it's built and when it's ultimately sold.

Sorry, I don't buy the oil excuse. Oil didn't reach $80 until late 2007, but even with that, with Iraq already invaded when the bid was won in June 2003, wild fluctuations in oil should have been taken into account. But then that assumes the original cost estimates were made in good faith instead of with the intention of putting the bid in the best light possible (i.e. they lied).

I don't know if the NFL is coming to Toronto either. It basically comes down to Ralph Wilson's death. The team will be up for auction when he dies. It's the only way Toronto gets a team because an expansion team will never come to Toronto because it does nothing for the NFL's real money-maker - TV contracts. I'm not a fan of using public money to build stadiums strictly for a private entity as well, but whether we like it or not, an Olympic stadium would be built with public money. So if that's the case, the public could either sell it to the Rogers family or Tanenbaum (because MLSE and Rogers the company, cannot own the team. The NFL forbids corporate ownership, though I'm sure you already knew that), lease it to them, or hand it over. Either way, at least it's getting used once the Olympics are done, which is much better than building a stadium and having it sit there unused. Let's face it, once a stadium is built for the olympics, the leverage is in the hands of the professional sports franchise that wants to move in.

As for the oil. You don't have to buy it. I would like to see anything, whether its a condo, a highway, a transit line, try and stay within budget during a time when people though going above $50 oil was absurd. And maybe you're smarter than everyone and could foresee $100+ oil, but the rest of the world couldn't. Just look at this article when oil was about to break $40 for the first time in March 2003: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4156/is_20030302/ai_n12581182/ A good quote from it: "The level of uncertainty is now so high that the unthinkable of $50 a barrel is no longer unthinkable." You can ignore this and just suggest it was entirely based on the stupidity of the Olympic Organizers, but that's your prerogative.
 
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We could use a little chicago

An interesting piece in the view it provides of how another large city is preparing for an Olympic bid. Realizing that TO is not bidding for anything like the Olympics, it is interesting to see the general upbeat news emerging on Chicago in contrast to the pitiful penny-pinching whining about Toronto's bid for Pan Am - do a contrast and compare Google news search.

Let's face it Toronto doesn't want a major global sporting event nor does it deserve one.

This is front and centre the most parsimonious major city on the planet with the worst city council - world class in both.




Will Obama bring the Olympics to sweet home Chicago?

By Mark Starr - GlobalPost Columnist

Published: September 11, 2009 16:34 ET

CHICAGO — The Chicago 2016 campaign delivered the news: the city council had backed the necessary financial guarantees for the city’s Olympic bid by a vote of 49-0 — as if it was a great victory on the gridiron.

But all it really demonstrated was that Mayor Richard Daley can still deliver on matters of civic pride. And at best Chicago is now back on a level playing field with the other contenders — Tokyo, Madrid and Rio de Janeiro — that have long had government protections against possible Olympic cost overruns in place.

The good news was quickly offset, though, by word that Chicago’s and America’s number one citizen, President Obama, will not be able to make the trip to Copenhagen and the International Olympic Commission meeting where the 2016 Games will be awarded on Oct. 2. Both the U.S. Olympic committee and Chicago 2016 say they have made it clear to the president — you can assume they have begged him — that they want him and need him there.

The candidate cities are engaged in one of the tightest races ever — the IOC technical evaluations barely distinguished between the quality of all four proposals — with the consensus that each is capable of staging a first-class Olympics. So Chicago 2016 was counting on a charm offensive by the president, whose considerable charms are acknowledged by even his political enemies, to deliver the Olympics home.

A visit by the chief of state has proved to be the winning formula at each of the last two Olympic votes: in 2005 when former British Prime Minister Tony Blair traveled to Singapore for the IOC confab and orchestrated an upset for London 2012; and again in 2007 when then-Russian president Vladimir Putin traveled to Guatemala City for the IOC vote and left with an upset victory for Sochi 2014.

Of course, it is not only Chicago that has taken notice of how susceptible the IOC is to flattery from the world’s most powerful people. If Obama decides to make the trip, Chicago will once again be playing catch up, as Spain’s King Juan Carolos, the Brazilian president and both the new Japanese prime minister and Japan’s royal family have already committed to Copenhagen.
Obama may be hard to match for a combination of charm and power, but the Spanish king was a 1972 Olympian in sailing, a distinction that gives him a special relationship with the IOC members. (Japan would have boasted the same advantage had prime minister Tara Aso, a 1976 Olympian in shooting, not been routed in that country’s recent election.) Still, Obama would figure to have some sway with the African delegates that have no natural candidate and might find ties that bind in the president’s African heritage.

IOC president Jacques Rogge has said that Obama’s absence will not hurt the Chicago bid. But absent a sympathy vote for a city that couldn’t deliver its star, it’s hard to imagine that it doesn’t cost Chicago a bit of its luster. And a video appearance is no substitute. Even Chicago 2016 CEO Patrick Ryan conceded that “everybody would be disappointed†simply because “it would be thrilling to meet Barack Obama.â€

Ryan and Chicago 2016 quickly came up with a consolation prize in the form of the First Lady. Michelle Obama, a woman of no mean charms herself, will now lead the American delegation to the IOC meeting in Copenhagen. The President, who has backed the Chicago bid enthusiastically in both word and deed, appears to be making a smart decision to stay home. He is in the middle of the biggest and most critical political battle of his career and, however appealing the notion of a hometown Olympics might be, doesn’t need the distraction of a campaign that many Americans would regard as relatively trivial and parochial.

Indeed it might be better if Obama had the opportunity to make the trip on behalf of another American city. The recent run of business-as-usual scandals in Chicago might make Obama’s mission on the city’s behalf seem like just another dealmaker’s quid pro quo. Moreover, if the president unleashed the full Obama on the IOC and returned home empty-handed, it might compromise his clout in the more critical political skirmishes that lay ahead this fall in Washington.

And if Chicago 2016 decides it requires more charm in Copenhagen, maybe another first lady, Oprah, would be available to double-team the IOC. Hard to imagine anyone could resist the two lady O’s.​
 
Well aware that most UT types have limited desire in seeing international games in Toronto but for those who have an interest in these events there is a good website that has been covering games bids for the last ten years.

In addition to the Olympics, this site seems to have decent coverage of the PanAm Games including McGuinty's visit to Copenhagen this week.

http://www.gamesbids.com/eng/index.1.html



Toronto 2015 Pan Am Bid To Be Pitched At IOC Meeting

Thursday, September 24, 2009 12:10pm EDT GB Staff

Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty will be at the International Olympic Committee (IOC) meeting in Copenhagen next week to pitch Toronto's bid for the 2015 Pan American Games. The city of Toronto is located in the province of Ontario.
McGuinty told reporters Wednesday, "they're gathering there and wherever they gather....I need to go. I think we've made it clear and I think they have been really honest about us having the strongest bid".

Toronto is competing against Bogota, Colombia and Lima, Peru.

The Premier will be in Copenhagen Oct. 2-4. He said, "we've got to go and meet with as many of the voters as we possibly can and encourage them to support Toronto's bid. There's no substitute for being physically present, engaging in those conversations".

He added, "this is something we're behind as a whole, the people of Ontario".



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An interesting piece in the view it provides of how another large city is preparing for an Olympic bid. Realizing that TO is not bidding for anything like the Olympics, it is interesting to see the general upbeat news emerging on Chicago in contrast to the pitiful penny-pinching whining about Toronto's bid for Pan Am - do a contrast and compare Google news search.

Let's face it Toronto doesn't want a major global sporting event nor does it deserve one.

This is front and centre the most parsimonious major city on the planet with the worst city council - world class in both.

Well the grass is almost always greener isn't it?? ;)
You may want to mention that support for the Chicago Bid within Chicago is at a whopping 47% at the moment.
Their city council is probably as bad if not worse than Toronto's, not to mention a mayor who rules as if the town was his personal little fiefdom.
 
Public Support?

I can personally tell you that Hamiltonians are fed up with these bids (we've tried, unsuccessfully, to win the 2010 & 2014 Commonwealth Games... ALONE, sans-Toronto).

My prediction (not that I want it to come true) is that Toronto loses to games based on the fact that the City is too big/major to host such a 'small' sporting event.

Had the original bid stuck (aka Hamilton PanAm 2015, sans-Toronto), then Hamilton would have had a great shot at it! Some Delegates even suggested Toronto is too big for these events:

"Julio Cesar Maglione, head of a visiting PASO evaluation team, was lavish in his praise of the Toronto 2015 game plan for a sports showcase centred in Toronto and Hamilton with several other cities also expecting to stage events.

"You could go for the Olympics if you want," he said in lauding facilities at McMaster University and University of Toronto, as well as planned venues like Hamilton's track and field stadium and velodrome."

Source: http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/627033

Also, I don't think there is any idication of any public support in either City. for the 2010 Commonwealth Games, I remember lots of News Publications printing full-page ads 'The Toronto Star Wishes Hamilton GOOD LUCK in it's bid for the 2010 Commonwealth Games!" and whatnot, but can't even find info on the front page of most sports sections!?

It's too bad the bid team decided to centre on Toronto rather than the original plan of centering on Hamilton as Toronto would have certainly gained from a Hamilton PanAm Games (the tourist factor alone would be amazing)... but alas, they ruined their chances by making it a Toronto Bid for 'Branding Purposes' (umm, question: If that's true, why wasn't the 2010/2014 Commonwealth Games centred around Toronto over Hamilton!?!)

Also, here's a model of our (propsed) venues to be built along our West Harbourfront:

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Source: http://www.thespec.com/News/Local/article/627033

Note: The Stadium will be smaller than BMO Field. Talk about getting scewed over! The Ti-Cats cannot survive off a 15,000-seat Stadium!!!
 
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Let me get this straight

The Pan-Am Games, contested only by nations of the Americas, will have its next host decided in......Europe? And at a meeting of the IOC, that paragon of virtue? :confused:
 
The Pan-Am Games, contested only by nations of the Americas, will have its next host decided in......Europe? And at a meeting of the IOC, that paragon of virtue? :confused:

I don't think so....I think our premier is at the IOC meeting in Europe to woo people and sell them on our bid........many of the same people are on both committees. I think the sales pitch goes like this "if Chicago is getting the games in 2016 wouldn't it be good to have athletes from the Americas compete a year early in a similar city with near identical climate"
 
I think the sales pitch goes like this "if Chicago is getting the games in 2016 wouldn't it be good to have athletes from the Americas compete a year early in a similar city with near identical climate"

But if 2016 doesn't go to Chicago and instead goes to Tokyo then the Pan-Am Games should go to Peru where there was once a president of Japanese decent, or alternatively if the games go to Rio in 2016 then Colombia would be the ideal choice because they share some of the same coastline? I don't think the 2016 Olympics decision is at all related to the Pan-Am 2015 decision.

I would be more likely to believe that some would vote against Toronto thinking that the benefits to a large financially capable city would be less than the benefits to Lima or Bogota and since Lima and Bogota are not ready for the Olympics they would be better candidates for the Pan Am Games. In reality creating facilities in the Toronto area only scaled to the needs of the Pan Am Games and spread all over the place would hurt a Toronto bid for the Olympics more than it would help so perhaps the voters would see that. Even if the IOC doesn't vote for Toronto to get the games, it probably likes the fact Toronto keeps presenting good Olympic bids simply to give them more options. Then again, if Chicago wins their bid the Olympics will not likely be in North America for quite some time... maybe 2036. By then Pan-Am facilities will be long paid off and perhaps the Hamilton velodrome will be a biosphere so maybe nobody will care that facilities are being built all over again. Hmmm... adding 27 years to my age... yikes.
 
I don't think the 2016 Olympics decision is at all related to the Pan-Am 2015 decision.

Agreed - chalk and cheese.

For those with an interest in the politics of sport, watching the four individual city presentations for the 2016 Olympics from Copenhagen on Friday would be an important occasion. Given that the four cities will be represented by two presidents, a prime minister and a king and that millions have gone into each presentation, this will be a slick and professional event.

I watched the awarding of the 2014 Winter Olympics a few years ago where Putin did the opening for the Sochi presentation - riveting television.

Who knows, maybe Toronto could even learn something from how things are done in Copenhagen.

The only drawback for the event is that it starts at 8:45 a.m. Danish time with the Chicago presentation and the others following. This means a 2:45 a.m. Toronto time start. The conclusion and awarding of the 2016 Olympics will be a much more reasonable hour of 12:30 p.m. Toronto time.




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My prediction (not that I want it to come true) is that Toronto loses to games based on the fact that the City is too big/major to host such a 'small' sporting event.

Do you think that the Pan Am committee thinks of Toronto as more big or more major than Rio? And do you think that those members of the committee from Latin America, where the Pan Am Games are a huge eventm, think of it as a 'small' sporting event? Because I am thinking no.

I would be more likely to believe that some would vote against Toronto thinking that the benefits to a large financially capable city would be less than the benefits to Lima or Bogota and since Lima and Bogota are not ready for the Olympics they would be better candidates for the Pan Am Games.

Well, do you really think that the Pan Am voting is run as a community development project? Sounds odd.

Intriguing scenario: Toronto wins the Pan Am Games, Glen Murray gets elected mayor.
 
Do you think that the Pan Am committee thinks of Toronto as more big or more major than Rio? And do you think that those members of the committee from Latin America, where the Pan Am Games are a huge eventm, think of it as a 'small' sporting event? Because I am thinking no.



Exactly why they would be more inclined to vote for Lima or Rio.

Apparently we have the Caribbean votes locked up (although that assumption is pretty cocky, imo).

Also noted from previous attempts is that delegates generally are looking out for the Athletes and not whatever City needs 'more help'. Hamilton's 2010 Commonwealth Games Bid was praised by delegates who saw that the bid, and general excitement, was based around the Athletes.
Our 2014 Loss was blamed on the fact that our politicians were too excited about the idea of rejuivinating Hamilton as a City rather than Hamiltonians as Future Athletes... if that makes sense at all!? haha
 
Exactly why they would be more inclined to vote for Lima or Rio.

No, Rio just held the games -- on the table are Lima and Bogota. The fact that the Pan Am Games are a huge Latin American event does not, in my opinion, lead to the conclusion that the voters will want to see it given to another Latin American city. I would think they'd want to see this big event (in their views: clearly not in the view of UT posters) go to somewhere that will continue to help grow the event. I would think the Golden Horseshoe bid (or whatever it is) would succeed or failure based partly on this promise of picking up that pan-Americas ball and running with it. Which is exactly as it should be.
 
^^ Ooops, Sorry meant 'Bagota', had just read Rio and was fresh in my mind

What I'm trying to get at, is that had the original bid plan stuck (ie: Hamilton as the Bid City), it would have a better chance.

We had a great deal of support from delegates for the 2010 Commonwealth Games, but were screwed over by New Delhi making a last-minute bride, err, deal to pay for the Athletes' transportation to India. Sheila Copps was handed an ultimatum just before the vote went down; Back Out Now and be GUARANTEED the 2014 Commonwealth Games, or Continue with this bid and you might win.

2014 Commonwealth Bid:
Despite being the International Front Runner, the Canadian CWG Committe (or COC, I dunno who votes) decided to send Halifax's bid to the International Stage, only to have them withdraw their bid right before it was due.

Hamilton still has that sympathetic draw, and is still fresh in delegate's minds as that City that was ready to host the Commonwealth Games, but not ready to play political hardball. Awwww *tear*

So Hamilton was poised as the clear Canadian City to bid for 2015 PanAms. How Toronto got thrown in the mix, then esentially hijack the bid, is beyond me? They suggest Toronto, yet scatter the venues/events around the entire GT&HA. Had Hamilton been the only City, the furthest the venues/events would go is St Catharines to the East (Henley regatta). I don't even remember if Burlington was part of the plan? That, along with proximity to Toronto and Niagara Falls (touristic purposes), would be more appealing to me if I were a delegate. I don't much like the idea of playing semis in Stoney Creek, and finals in Uxbridge!?!

That, and the clear lack of any public support/knowledge, would be the deal breaker for me.
Hell, the 2010 Commonwealth Bid Vote was televised on the megatron(!?) in Copps and was packed with residents, families and tons of school kids! Ask 1000 Torontonians about the Pan Am Bid, and they'll look at you like you're trying to sell new cookware (or slam the door in your face, or both!)! Same goes in Hamilton, probably St Catharines, Burlington, Durham Region, Barrie, etc etc etc
 
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