Toronto 191 Bay | 301.74m | 64s | QuadReal | Hariri Pontarini

ptbotrmpfn said:
Also like YSL I see this design to get changed completely as it’s to nice and pretty.


City won’t stand for beautiful buildings.
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Hahahahaa Ridiculous..... They do, they probably don't have the backbones to demand better architectural designs from these profit-first developers
 
kweku said:
Hahahahaa Ridiculous..... They do, they probably don't have the backbones to demand better architectural designs from these profit-first developers
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You don't seem to understand how the planning process works here. Here's a hint: It's not like that.
 
Prior to completing a registeration for an UrbanToronto account, there has to be some sort of 5 minute course to educate people on the planning process.
Seriously though, the reason Toronto is such a great place to live and work is exactly due to fine balance that has been struck between regulations imposed by agencies and business interests.
Look no further than Montreal or Vancouver, where City Hall is much more involved and strict, which definitely impacts growth there to a certain extent.
 
Nah it’s fine I know all about that stuff. Lol. By far you guys really read into my comment I guess. It happens
 
Thing that bugs me is the 298 metre height cap that puts it more less equal with FCP... it's odd and I guess I don't understand the reasoning. Any higher and there'd be shadowing on some important site or...? Just seems like a rather arbitrary limitation. I would rather it go higher but slim down a tad - it's a bit of a monster in its massing.
 
The 298m height has to do solely with the developer. That height may decrease but only if the developer chooses to build a smaller tower due to lower demand and lower risk. The city IMO would have no problem with this height, especially because it's right downtown in the financial district. People expect buildings to be tall here.
 
Long time lurker here - I figured I'd share some relevant news. As I understand it today City Council voted to deny the IMIT applications for 6 projects (in a pretty heated argument that came down to tied vote no less):
  1. 100 Queens Quay East (LCBO headquarters)
  2. Commerce Court 3
  3. 30 Bay (The Hub)
  4. 16 York St
  5. 160 Front St
  6. 40 Temperance (Bay Adelaide North)
I'm doubtful that we'll see all of these projects proceed in the near future as a result, if approved I believe there would be a reasonable expectation that all would have started construction within 2 years. I was excited to see what sorts of tenants would be filling these buildings, but now I guess we'll never know! Since 16 York and 100 Queens Quay East are already under construction and 160 Front is all but confirmed, which of the remaining 3 do we think will get built first (if any at all)??
 
Hello Forumers,

I've been monitoring activity on this site for quite sometime and am an occasional member on SSC international forum. Finally decided to become a member here.

I'd have to agree that 298 metres is just an arbitrary number that the developers came to. If there is enough demand for office space to occupy 64 stories, this project will go forward as is. The project could change depending factors such as the number of tenant and space secured. Could go down to 50 stories or even as high as 70 stories. We will have to wait and see. On a side note, the developers if they choose to go for bragging rights, may increase the fins to a final height of 300 metres for bragging rights to get the title of he tallest office building in Toronto.
 
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I thought this building had to be capped to 298m due to shadowing on St. James Park? My understanding is that the developers would build taller if they could, not shorter.
 
westtoeast said:
Long time lurker here - I figured I'd share some relevant news. As I understand it today City Council voted to deny the IMIT applications for 6 projects (in a pretty heated argument that came down to tied vote no less):
  1. 100 Queens Quay East (LCBO headquarters)
  2. Commerce Court 3
  3. 30 Bay (The Hub)
  4. 16 York St
  5. 160 Front St
  6. 40 Temperance (Bay Adelaide North)
I'm doubtful that we'll see all of these projects proceed in the near future as a result, if approved I believe there would be a reasonable expectation that all would have started construction within 2 years. I was excited to see what sorts of tenants would be filling these buildings, but now I guess we'll never know! Since 16 York and 100 Queens Quay East are already under construction and 160 Front is all but confirmed, which of the remaining 3 do we think will get built first (if any at all)??
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WesttoEast,

Newbie here and frequent lurker as well.

Thank you for sharing this news. I can understand why city council is divided. Having worked in downtown Toronto for several years, I can see that there is demand for office space. You are correct, other LCBO, 16 York, and CIBC square phase 1 are proceeding. From the other proposal, 160 Front has the best odds as they have secured a big tenant. I agree the others could be in limbo based on market factors as well as city planning initiatives. At some point, most of the big banks will outgrow their current headquarters and consolidating their offices appears as a viable business solution.
 
westtoeast said:
Long time lurker here - I figured I'd share some relevant news. As I understand it today City Council voted to deny the IMIT applications for 6 projects (in a pretty heated argument that came down to tied vote no less):
  1. 100 Queens Quay East (LCBO headquarters)
  2. Commerce Court 3
  3. 30 Bay (The Hub)
  4. 16 York St
  5. 160 Front St
  6. 40 Temperance (Bay Adelaide North)
I'm doubtful that we'll see all of these projects proceed in the near future as a result, if approved I believe there would be a reasonable expectation that all would have started construction within 2 years. I was excited to see what sorts of tenants would be filling these buildings, but now I guess we'll never know! Since 16 York and 100 Queens Quay East are already under construction and 160 Front is all but confirmed, which of the remaining 3 do we think will get built first (if any at all)??
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Thanks for sharing that information and welcome to UT!

It's about time the city started rejecting these applications for the downtown core proper as they are really not needed at all to spur office development in the area. I dont think any of these projects are really threatened by the IMIT application rejection to be honest. If anything, some of them (ie: Bay Adelaide North) may have their timelines pushed out further in order to spread out the financing for the project.
 
Sorry I am confused? What does that mean council rejected the IMIT applications for all those buildings? Isn't 16 York already 6 stories high? This doesn't make sense to me at all. If someone could explain in everyday terms what that means it would be appreciated. Surely I can't see council putting the brakes on all these office towers.

Okay I did some of my own research from Toronto's website.

"Toronto’s Imagination, Manufacturing, Innovation and Technology (IMIT) business incentive helps to reduce business costs. The IMIT Program was approved unanimously by Toronto City Council and supports new building construction and/or building expansion in targeted sectors and areas across the city."


So I guess this just means that these office towers won't be eligible to get this incentive? It doesn't deny their rights to build. Is that correct?
 
/\ Correct.

Only The Well and the Sanofi Pasteur HQ got the grant.

I'm of the opinion that it's fine to phase the thing out (which isn't even what's happening), but if a number of developments had already applied for it and were expecting to receive it, Council should have approved those that were in line but denied subsequent applications moving forward.

To @westtoeast's post, those projects will still move forward. They're being advanced by billion-dollar pension funds and while not being granted an IMIT might injure them slightly, they'll be fine.
 
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