dgto
New Member
Glad to hear that the developers are going to now have to spend millions of dollars to preserve these relatively ugly, uninteresting and decaying "heritage" facades
Toronto 1196 Yonge | 114m | 32s | Woodcliffe | KPMB
- Thread starter AlbertC
- Start date
Northern Light
Superstar
Those facades are not ugly and in any event will be restored. Disagree w/you strongly here.
GenerationLee
Senior Member
I agree full stop. This is in fact some of the best stock in the neighbourhood among the older commercial shops on this stretch. It needs some refurbishment sure, but it's detail work and demonstration of later 19th century architectural form is very telling in this area, mostly due to how different this main street area is compared to that time of course.
ProjectEnd
Superstar
Agreed, it is good, yes.
dgto
New Member
maybe I can make a more nuanced point then, without judging the existing building (even though, subjectively, I don't think it has significant enough architectural value to justify conservation).
I think any time heritage conservation is required, even if it is just retaining facades, we need to be thinking about the tradeoffs. These include increased construction costs and longer construction timelines. These costs are ultimately passed on to future residents/ tenants of these buildings. There are also potential issues around accessibility and environmental performance when you are required to preserve facades which have to be mitigated. Without knowing all of the details in this case, I am still wary that the negative implications of preserving these facades are worthwhile.
Another point I would make is that in my view, the main thing worth preserving here are the small-scale storefronts, not the facade itself. I wish we paid more attention to ensuring that small-scale storefronts are viable in new buildings, rather than requiring expensive physical conservation.
I think any time heritage conservation is required, even if it is just retaining facades, we need to be thinking about the tradeoffs. These include increased construction costs and longer construction timelines. These costs are ultimately passed on to future residents/ tenants of these buildings. There are also potential issues around accessibility and environmental performance when you are required to preserve facades which have to be mitigated. Without knowing all of the details in this case, I am still wary that the negative implications of preserving these facades are worthwhile.
Another point I would make is that in my view, the main thing worth preserving here are the small-scale storefronts, not the facade itself. I wish we paid more attention to ensuring that small-scale storefronts are viable in new buildings, rather than requiring expensive physical conservation.
Northern Light
Superstar
There were trade offs here, the developer/proponent will do just fine, no worries.
This point has merit, and I've discussed extensively in different threads how that could/should work. The long/short of it is the need for bowling alley units that are narrow, but deep w/limited window frontage. The challenge in delivering that is the elevator core and loading functions often impair addressing this.
To be clear, it can be done. But it requires more imagination that most builders in this town usually show. (loading below grade, mail room/lobby above grade, elevator off centre or even at the rear of a building (which changes typical residential floor plans)
dgto
New Member
right, you may say that the developer / proponent will do just fine. but we need to recognize that many planning decisions reduce the number of units that are built, and/or increase costs for the developer which end up being passed on to the buyer/renter. we need to recognize that there is no such thing as a free lunch.
Northern Light
Superstar
I've just told you there was no such tradeoff here. That the developer will do fine.
I'm not guessing, I know.
Undead
Senior Member
As far as we can tell, heritage considerations are really not the cost drivers, not even remotely most of the time.
Northern Light
Superstar
I agree...
However, just to be fair, this one will probably be a bit more costly. (it's closer to reconstruction than simple restoration, and involves changes to the facade at grade to allow for level entry to the building) However, everyone will need to wait to see the final offering here.
xy3
Active Member
I wouldnt mind seeing the heritage buildings moved to inside an atrium or courtyard of the proposed development.
Northern Light
Superstar
As promised, the settlement offer for this one is on the next agenda of City Council:
Regrettably, still confidential, but (most) people should be happy.
Regrettably, still confidential, but (most) people should be happy.
Midtown Hank
New Member
I agree, but am told one of the major issues is MPAC reassessment, which makes small storefront uneconomic post redevelopment. They have to address that issue - basically grandfather the tax rate if the storefront retains the same street exposure (dimensions).
Curious to see the wind mitigation as that seemed to be a real sticking point for the city.
Northern Light
Superstar
Sooo, the offer is now public.
There are no new renders.........but the details are there.
I said the builder did fine for themselves here...............
@Paclo this is now 31s
Offer:
From the above:
New Arch Plans:
From the above:
Total Units: 130
Total Elevators: 2
Elevator Ration 1 to 65 units.
Edit to add: I'm very pleased w/how this turned out (on paper); the renders of the tower will matter, of course. But I think the developer and the City both deserve applause for finding a workable solution that saved the heritage.
There are no new renders.........but the details are there.
I said the builder did fine for themselves here...............
@Paclo this is now 31s
Offer:
From the above:
New Arch Plans:
From the above:
Total Units: 130
Total Elevators: 2
Elevator Ration 1 to 65 units.
Edit to add: I'm very pleased w/how this turned out (on paper); the renders of the tower will matter, of course. But I think the developer and the City both deserve applause for finding a workable solution that saved the heritage.
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Towered
Superstar
Excellent news regarding the heritage retention/reconstruction.