innsertnamehere
Superstar
No you don't. I know in Vaughan they have a computer you can use to go look up assessment info, just sitting in the lobby of city hall. I'd imagine Toronto has the same, though I'll admit I've never tried.
Toronto 11 YV | 213m | 62s | Metropia | Sweeny &Co
- Thread starter innsertnamehere
- Start date
UrbanAffair
Senior Member
Hmm, ok I stand corrected. I have never actually gone to look up assessment information, other than on MPAC's About My Property program.
Automation Gallery
Superstar
Still don't understand why someone for years would care so much about what goes on with Bazis
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
That's right, InnsertNameHere,.... all Toronto's CityHall/CivicCentres have these property assessment computers available for public usage - usually City Clerk area.
My previous post shows the result of specific properties,....
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...l-metropia-riocan-s.27953/page-2#post-1272034
But searching on Street level shows,.... a number of lots and their "owners",... looking for common owner names or common "mailing address" (in specific property level) - ie: "mailing address" for developer's head office? VS land speculators. Finding that, you can see adjacent individual lots being assembled to form larger lots for large development projects! Very useful for areas with high rate of development!
Here, seeing "11 Yorkville Partners Inc." as registered name of not just 11 Yorkville Ave but adjacent 17 Yorkville Ave and adjacent 18 Cumberland Street is a dead giveaway for land assembly in progress! They're not even trying to hide,... usually have to go to "mailing address" to figure it out!
From above search and map, that's why I'm speculating RioCan, Metropia and Capital will also be going after the adjacent properties of 12-16 Cumberland Street. Note: another development proposal for northwest corner of Yonge & Cumberland could also go after these properties too,... but they already submitted and would need to deal for City laneway too. Properties directly west of their assembled properties are also potential targets since the targeted floor space is so large
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...l-metropia-riocan-s.27953/page-2#post-1272037
I live in high growth North York Centre,... tracking land assembly gives me a heads up on where large development coming and who's behind it (real developer to build VS BS speculators to sell or up-zone) - often years before development application submitted to City. Then I speculate what would be proposed and allowed on the site,... and what the City might request for on-site Section37 CommunityBenefits, Parkland dedication or public realm improvements,... way before City even see development application.
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arearesident18
New Member
My first posting on this thread, just a comment on some previous post, 99 % of all large scale projects are done in some kind of form of partnerships. No single developer takes a chance on their own.
Some times you see just a single developer name on the project, but there is always multiple investors behind it.
Some times you see just a single developer name on the project, but there is always multiple investors behind it.
Batman
New Member
As my crime-fighting associate Robin always says, "TL/dr".
GenerationLee
Senior Member
Acronyisms mixed with a slash?
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
You're right,... no developer wants to do a "Bazis" a-la 1 Bloor,.... Bazis assembled all the lots together for about $65million,... and when financial market had a hic-cup in late 2008,.... "Bazis has to swallow a hefty multimillion-dollar loss (some estimate it to be in the $30-million range)"
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/rea...-condo-fell-apart/article4286570/?arc404=true
From current City property records, it looks like original partnership for this project was RioCan, Metropia and Bazis (No Capital Development)
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...l-metropia-riocan-s.27953/page-2#post-1272034
Land assembly downtown is tricky due to smaller lot size and expensive prices. Buyer pay healthy premium and deposit to entice each sellers but Buyer usually want long closing date (1-2 years or more); if Buyer can't assemble enough adjacent land in that time period or market turn, they must be willing to just walk away and lose deposit.
This Q3 Investment report posted by DavidAckerman contains details of Bazis closing a $45million transaction here for 11 Yorkville,.... this past summer,... the Closing date.
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...-real-estate-in-gta.26944/page-2#post-1270236
Assuming a 1-2 year closing time,... back then, RioCan, Metropia and Bazis were still in their honeymoon period as they start construction for their first project together, e-condo, which is now behind schedule. Bazis does very poorly at execution and project management,... that might have affected RioCan-Bazis "relationship" since recent "conjuncture" shows:
September 7, 2017: RioCan announces RioCan buying out Bazis and Metropia share of the apartment tower at e-condo.
https://web.tmxmoney.com/article.php?newsid=5217878711401281&qm_symbol=REI.UN
AND
November 3, 2017: RioCan announces this new Yorkville project between RioCan, Metropia and new partner Capital Development (No Bazis). Also mentioned some adjacent land acquisition that'll close Q1 next year.
http://investor.riocan.com/English/...-and-24-Same-Property-NOI-Growth/default.aspx
arearesident18
New Member
You have no knowledge of development industry how it works or how land gets assemble and developed. Your comments that you post are completely inaccurate and laughable
It's hard to understand your obsession with Bazis.
You know nothing about Bazis financial position or any other developers position. You have no knowledge on what other opportunities any developers have and why they might sell their share in any given project to deploy the money in another project that might generate a faster and a better returned with less risk.
For your information Bazis remained a large stake owner in 1 Bloor project, and is involved in several project as equity investor.
And is in a process of making applications on a couple new projects.
No developer just puts down deposits on properties and just walks away from their deposit and loose their money.
There is a couple of ways that the sites get assembled :
First way the fully refundable deposits are given to owner of subject property with a long due diligence period and a clause in the purchase agreement stating it is conditional on developer being able to buy neighbouring properties.. If developer fails to buy neighbouring properties during the due diligence period he has option to get his deposit back and walk way from assembly or second option developers decides to close on the property ( taking a chance) and try to buy neighbouring properties over a longer period of time. Which might take several years...
As for E condos, where my daughter bough a unit, the project is proceeding on schedule, and the deal where RioCan bought out both Metropia and Bazis out of the second tower was very beneficial to both developers as it involved RioCan assuming all of the debt.
It's hard to understand your obsession with Bazis.
You know nothing about Bazis financial position or any other developers position. You have no knowledge on what other opportunities any developers have and why they might sell their share in any given project to deploy the money in another project that might generate a faster and a better returned with less risk.
For your information Bazis remained a large stake owner in 1 Bloor project, and is involved in several project as equity investor.
And is in a process of making applications on a couple new projects.
No developer just puts down deposits on properties and just walks away from their deposit and loose their money.
There is a couple of ways that the sites get assembled :
First way the fully refundable deposits are given to owner of subject property with a long due diligence period and a clause in the purchase agreement stating it is conditional on developer being able to buy neighbouring properties.. If developer fails to buy neighbouring properties during the due diligence period he has option to get his deposit back and walk way from assembly or second option developers decides to close on the property ( taking a chance) and try to buy neighbouring properties over a longer period of time. Which might take several years...
As for E condos, where my daughter bough a unit, the project is proceeding on schedule, and the deal where RioCan bought out both Metropia and Bazis out of the second tower was very beneficial to both developers as it involved RioCan assuming all of the debt.
@arearesident18: Please try to keep your comments on topic, and not about other members. It's tough sometimes, but we are trying to keep discussion friendly.
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sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
Actually, current RioCan, Metropia & Bazis' e-condo project is late,... since initial promise occupancy date was August/September 2017,... now promising late 2018/early 2019
http://www.blogto.com/city/2012/07/new_in_toronto_real_estate_e_condos/
https://condonow.com/E-Condos-Yonge-and-Eglinton
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...-rosario-varacalli.17683/page-58#post-1149821
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...-rosario-varacalli.17683/page-70#post-1251158
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...-rosario-varacalli.17683/page-75#post-1272170
All Bazis projects have been late - EmeraldPark was 4 years late!
The only active Bazis development applications files with City Planning are townhouses:
- Estate On Bayview - which after getting upzoned and severance, Bazis seems to sold it off to another developer: RUP's EmpressPark project
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...york-mills-bazis-planning.23608/#post-1270294
- Oasis Townhomes On Lawrence - waiting approval for land to be upzoned to townhouse
Please share where Bazis next projects are,... I'd be happy to look up the land assessment-registry
I would love to see Bazis' financials,.... link please.
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
RioCan's involvement here show there'll likely be a good retail component at podium; since site is off-Yonge and traditional retail dying it'll be more food-based retail (based on RioCan's Yonge-SheppardCentre). This site will probably see something like:
- lower level food court PATH connection to redeveloped CumberlandTerrance (via 18 Cumberland and hence indirect subway connection)
- ground floor small-mid size restaurants
- 2nd/3rd level (depending on how much additional land assembled southeast and especially to west) urban-format supermarket like Loblaws' mini-IndependentCityMarket type
- a few floors of token office space the City will require
- then residential matching 1 Yorkville height (based on 1/2 million sq-ft target gross floor area mentioned in RioCan Quarterly call), significant portion of residential component will likely be rental apartments (50-100%) - RioCan knows these residential units would mainly be brought up by individual investors to use as rental units, so just cut out the middle-man and RioCan rent them out themselves - more profitable long term and more control of property and tenants (based on RioCan's e-condo & Yonge-SheppardCentre and RioCan tendancy to hold onto their developments long term VS Bazis' Wham-Baam-I'm-Gone approach)
While RioCan Quarterly call mention adding some more properties for the land assembly and 1/2 million sq-ft target gross floor area (15% more than 1 Yorkville),.... assuming density and height matches 1 Yorkville, they would need 19 Yorkville in land assembly,... and this is where it could get interesting,...
Red: 11, 17 Yorkville & 18 Cumberland land assembly by RioCan, Metropia, Capital
Green: 1 Yorkville (Bazis, PlazaCorp) - under construction
Purple: 8 Cumberland (GreatGulf) - development application approved
Blue top: Kingsett & Greystone's land assembly (21-37 Yorkville 26-50 Cumberland) previously up-zoned and looks to become 33 Yorkville project (no development application yet)
Blue bottom: Kingsett & Greystone's Cumberland Terrace & 2 Bloor West previously up-zoned
In terms of the on-going land assembly,... it should be noted:
- Kingsett & Greystone owns a much larger land assembly starting 1 lot west on Yorkville and 2 lots west on Cumberland (that includes the large parking lot land)
Note: Also, Kingsett Capital and RioCan are partners for current Yonge-SheppardCentre project,.... hmmm,...
- Kingsett & Greystone also owns "Cumberland Terrace" directly south - entire south side of Cumberland from Yonge to Bay along with 2 Bloor West) - acquiring a few more properties along north side of Cumberland to essentially close off the street could result in a large retail mall - while traditional retail dying - high end isn't and this is Yorkville!,... Hmmm,...
- lower level food court PATH connection to redeveloped CumberlandTerrance (via 18 Cumberland and hence indirect subway connection)
- ground floor small-mid size restaurants
- 2nd/3rd level (depending on how much additional land assembled southeast and especially to west) urban-format supermarket like Loblaws' mini-IndependentCityMarket type
- a few floors of token office space the City will require
- then residential matching 1 Yorkville height (based on 1/2 million sq-ft target gross floor area mentioned in RioCan Quarterly call), significant portion of residential component will likely be rental apartments (50-100%) - RioCan knows these residential units would mainly be brought up by individual investors to use as rental units, so just cut out the middle-man and RioCan rent them out themselves - more profitable long term and more control of property and tenants (based on RioCan's e-condo & Yonge-SheppardCentre and RioCan tendancy to hold onto their developments long term VS Bazis' Wham-Baam-I'm-Gone approach)
While RioCan Quarterly call mention adding some more properties for the land assembly and 1/2 million sq-ft target gross floor area (15% more than 1 Yorkville),.... assuming density and height matches 1 Yorkville, they would need 19 Yorkville in land assembly,... and this is where it could get interesting,...
Red: 11, 17 Yorkville & 18 Cumberland land assembly by RioCan, Metropia, Capital
Green: 1 Yorkville (Bazis, PlazaCorp) - under construction
Purple: 8 Cumberland (GreatGulf) - development application approved
Blue top: Kingsett & Greystone's land assembly (21-37 Yorkville 26-50 Cumberland) previously up-zoned and looks to become 33 Yorkville project (no development application yet)
Blue bottom: Kingsett & Greystone's Cumberland Terrace & 2 Bloor West previously up-zoned
In terms of the on-going land assembly,... it should be noted:
- Kingsett & Greystone owns a much larger land assembly starting 1 lot west on Yorkville and 2 lots west on Cumberland (that includes the large parking lot land)
Note: Also, Kingsett Capital and RioCan are partners for current Yonge-SheppardCentre project,.... hmmm,...
- Kingsett & Greystone also owns "Cumberland Terrace" directly south - entire south side of Cumberland from Yonge to Bay along with 2 Bloor West) - acquiring a few more properties along north side of Cumberland to essentially close off the street could result in a large retail mall - while traditional retail dying - high end isn't and this is Yorkville!,... Hmmm,...
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ChesterCopperpot
Senior Member
I thought Cresford own that parking lot on Cumberland now.
sunnyraytoronto
Senior Member
They seem to have a 33 Yorkville proposal coming,....
http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/thread...62s-cresford-architectsalliance.17868/page-28
But currently all the land (including that parking lot) I have circled in blue between Cumberland and Yorkville are still owned by Kingsett & Greystone as per City tax assessment records (technically, there's a 1 week lag between City getting updates from MPAC),... interestingly, Kingsett & Greystone now owns 21, 23, 25 Yorkville which wasn't part of their original up-zoning,....
UrbanAffair
Senior Member
The Cumberland parking garage still appears to be owned by Kingsett based on sale and assessment data as mentioned by Sunnyray, and the address on file is Kingsett's as well at 66 Wellington. Is it possible any transfer would take place after the sales of this building, or perhaps not at all, whereas Cresford is simply acting as a "selling agent", so to speak?