Toronto 10 Abitibi | 171.2m | 50s | Amdev | Hariri Pontarini

If I could though why did the North York planning Department all of a sudden decide to blow up these single-family areas when for over a decade it has fought harder than any other district to prevent density along existing subways like Sheppard avenue and the North York Center.

Something is seriously up with this area...is the city afraid Vaughan will capture all of the YNSE capacity? and through it development charges/taxes?

Is North York Planning Department blowing up this block of single-family house area along Avondale to Glendora and Bales to Tradewind?
No, these houses are within a Secondary Plan,... redevelopment is allowable. As it is here, within another Secondary Plan!

First,... there is no "blow up"! Everything is going according to Plan, well,... mostly anyways. That's what City Planning does,..

The development of most of North York was after WW2,... when large field lots were converted to subdivisions of post-war bungalows and retail strip plazas along some main streets,... and this is basically the same built form that mainly exist here along Yonge corridor near Steeles south to Drewry/Cummer,....

But not to the south. Why? To the south,... with the original Yonge Subway North Extension from Eglinton to Sheppard and Finch Station opening in 1974, then City of North York Mayor Mel Lastman plan to build a Downtown North York (promising the added density of new taxpayers will keep property taxes low for the House area):
- only Office towers along Yonge Street (rule was broken in mid-1990's (after Office market tanked) by Menkes Empress Walk's 2 condo towers above podium mall)
- Apartment/Condo towers off Yonge St
- Parallel Service "Ring Road" of Beecroft Rd and Doris Ave each about 200m off Yonge St to act as the boundary of the downtown intensification. Over time, there's been some "leakage" (townhouses west of Beecroft near Ellerslie-Churchill Ave; townhouses & condo east of Doris north of Church Ave)

This is now the North York Centre Secondary Plan area,... Yonge Corridor between Beecroft and Doris from 401 to Drewry/Cummer. Over time certain limitations has been weaked by OMB approvals like maximum allowable height (100m for about 30-storey) or maximum allowable Density 4.5FSI becoming 5.98FSI for prime corner site with direct subway connections). It's now about 80% redeveloped,..

In late 2010, Ghods officially submitted Redevelopment application of North York Chrysler Jeep Dodge dealership at 5959 Yonge St,... just north of Drewry/Cummer,... just outside the boundaries of the North York Centre Secondary Plan. This triggered City Planning to start a the Yonge Street North Planning Study to set up the framework for Redevelopment of Yonge corridor north of Drewry/Cummer to Steeles (basically have the Planning Study ready so that IF/When OMB approves Ghods 5959 Yonge proposal the City can trigger a new Secondary Plan),... which is now the Yonge Street North Secondary Plan,... basically an extension of the North York Centre Secondary Plan to the south!

Yonge Street North Secondary Plan:

These houses along this Abitibi Ave between Yonge and Dumont Street are within the Yonge Street North Secondary Plan area,.. and subject to intensification.
The house neighbourhoods outside the Secondary Plans,... are to be protected!

Here, for the Yonge Street North Secondary Plan,...
- there's plan for Beecroft North Extension to form a solid boundary to protect the single residential house neighbourhoods to the west
- A similar Doris Ave north extension was too difficult due to meandering roadways in Silverview neighbourhood,... so the previous Cllr Filion was more ok with setting up a more transitional buffer area,.. I believe the current Cllr Lily is leaning more towards a Doris north extension,..
 
Not to get too side-tracked - interesting to note that the Sheppard East LRT seems to be part of this planning framework, and not the Eglinton Crosstown West Extension (which is actually under construction?).
Sheppard East LRT??? The Ontario Minister of Transportation MPP King's Counsel Caroline Mulroney and Associate Minister of Transportation Willowdale MPP Stan Cho
have given Staff directive for exploratory study of Sheppard East Subway Extension from Don Mills Station to McCowan (Scarborough Subway Line under construction now) along with exploratory study on Sheppard West Subway Extension from Yonge-Sheppard Station to Sheppard West Station (formerly Downsview) for connection to Wilson Subway Yard.
 
Sheppard East LRT??? The Ontario Minister of Transportation MPP King's Counsel Caroline Mulroney and Associate Minister of Transportation Willowdale MPP Stan Cho
have given Staff directive for exploratory study of Sheppard East Subway Extension from Don Mills Station to McCowan (Scarborough Subway Line under construction now) along with exploratory study on Sheppard West Subway Extension from Yonge-Sheppard Station to Sheppard West Station (formerly Downsview) for connection to Wilson Subway Yard.
I think some wires are crossed that the Sheppard East LRT MTSAs are still shown in the planning context. I don't think anyone believes that is happening vs Sheppard East subway. However, they haven't announced it yet so I suppose they can't update the MTSAs. Perhaps Sheppard East LRT was never formally 'cancelled'.
 
Is North York Planning Department blowing up this block of single-family house area along Avondale to Glendora and Bales to Tradewind?
No, these houses are within a Secondary Plan,... redevelopment is allowable. As it is here, within another Secondary Plan!

First,... there is no "blow up"! Everything is going according to Plan, well,... mostly anyways. That's what City Planning does,..

The development of most of North York was after WW2,... when large field lots were converted to subdivisions of post-war bungalows and retail strip plazas along some main streets,... and this is basically the same built form that mainly exist here along Yonge corridor near Steeles south to Drewry/Cummer,....

But not to the south. Why? To the south,... with the original Yonge Subway North Extension from Eglinton to Sheppard and Finch Station opening in 1974, then City of North York Mayor Mel Lastman plan to build a Downtown North York (promising the added density of new taxpayers will keep property taxes low for the House area):
- only Office towers along Yonge Street (rule was broken in mid-1990's (after Office market tanked) by Menkes Empress Walk's 2 condo towers above podium mall)
- Apartment/Condo towers off Yonge St
- Parallel Service "Ring Road" of Beecroft Rd and Doris Ave each about 200m off Yonge St to act as the boundary of the downtown intensification. Over time, there's been some "leakage" (townhouses west of Beecroft near Ellerslie-Churchill Ave; townhouses & condo east of Doris north of Church Ave)

This is now the North York Centre Secondary Plan area,... Yonge Corridor between Beecroft and Doris from 401 to Drewry/Cummer. Over time certain limitations has been weaked by OMB approvals like maximum allowable height (100m for about 30-storey) or maximum allowable Density 4.5FSI becoming 5.98FSI for prime corner site with direct subway connections). It's now about 80% redeveloped,..

In late 2010, Ghods officially submitted Redevelopment application of North York Chrysler Jeep Dodge dealership at 5959 Yonge St,... just north of Drewry/Cummer,... just outside the boundaries of the North York Centre Secondary Plan. This triggered City Planning to start a the Yonge Street North Planning Study to set up the framework for Redevelopment of Yonge corridor north of Drewry/Cummer to Steeles (basically have the Planning Study ready so that IF/When OMB approves Ghods 5959 Yonge proposal the City can trigger a new Secondary Plan),... which is now the Yonge Street North Secondary Plan,... basically an extension of the North York Centre Secondary Plan to the south!

Yonge Street North Secondary Plan:

These houses along this Abitibi Ave between Yonge and Dumont Street are within the Yonge Street North Secondary Plan area,.. and subject to intensification.
The house neighbourhoods outside the Secondary Plans,... are to be protected!

Here, for the Yonge Street North Secondary Plan,...
- there's plan for Beecroft North Extension to form a solid boundary to protect the single residential house neighbourhoods to the west
- A similar Doris Ave north extension was too difficult due to meandering roadways in Silverview neighbourhood,... so the previous Cllr Filion was more ok with setting up a more transitional buffer area,.. I believe the current Cllr Lily is leaning more towards a Doris north extension,..

Didn't mean to strike a cord here...I know how secondary plans work, my point is that this city initiated secondary plan is one of the most ambitious, "densifying" plans I've seen in a long time. I don't think it's in any way a continuation of the 109-page north york secondary plan you point out. That plan has FSI limits, height limits, commercial and residential land use restrictions, etc. This plan, The Yonge-North-Secondary Plan is 41 pages, no FSI limits, loose language with height, prescribing 50-storey towers...and lo and behold that's exactly what were getting! Even looking at the original 2013 plans these low-rise areas had 1-3x FSI prescribed...what changed?

I think Vaughan has played a big factor here alongside all the new provincial changes with MTSA's...but it's amazing to see the stark difference in city planning from this area to say Danforth or Sheppard, I don't see any difference in context.
 
Didn't mean to strike a cord here...I know how secondary plans work, my point is that this city initiated secondary plan is one of the most ambitious, "densifying" plans I've seen in a long time. I don't think it's in any way a continuation of the 109-page north york secondary plan you point out. That plan has FSI limits, height limits, commercial and residential land use restrictions, etc. This plan, The Yonge-North-Secondary Plan is 41 pages, no FSI limits, loose language with height, prescribing 50-storey towers...and lo and behold that's exactly what were getting! Even looking at the original 2013 plans these low-rise areas had 1-3x FSI prescribed...what changed?

I think Vaughan has played a big factor here alongside all the new provincial changes with MTSA's...but it's amazing to see the stark difference in city planning from this area to say Danforth or Sheppard, I don't see any difference in context.
Correction,... the North York Centre Secondary Plan started off with "FSI limits, height limits, commercial and residential land use restrictions, etc",.... namely:
- maximum allowable Height of 100m (typically 30-storey) was lost at OMB via Menkes' GibsonSquare like around 15 years ago,...
- maximum allowable Density of 4.5FSI,... which was lost at OMB via Menkes' GibsonSquare for Prime Corner with direct Subway Connection,... CityPlanning converted it to 5.98FSI for prime corner with direct subway connection along with higher rate of Section 37 Community Benefit for FSI above 4.5
- maximum allowable Density of 4.5FSI,... was lost at OMB via Demante's 5300 Yonge which got Double Density and set off the current wave of redevelopment
- Office vs Condo land use where Only Office towers were allowed along Yonge frontage was lost in mid-1990s with Menkes EmpressWalk hiding two Condo towers on Yonge above podium Mall

The North York Centre Secondary Plan will start formal review in the Fall.

The Yonge Street North Secondary Plan does have site specific restrictions on Height and Density,... whether Developers choose to follow them or to challenge them at OMB/OLT is another storey,... Yonge Street North Secondary Plan calls for mid-rise of about 13-14-storey with 6.0FSI midblock and along east side of Yonge from Centre Park to Steeles,... thus, far,... that has held at OMB/OLT - mainly held,... including 25-storey at 6200 Yonge getting chopped down,... here's what Yonge Street North Secondary Plan's built form looks like,... there might be some slight road-grid changes for better connectivity,...

6200yongeyellow-png.441408


Vaughan isn't much of a factor, it's still just a bunch of Developers challenging Vaughan's Secondary Plan along north side of Steeles,... a Toronto municipal road!

Provincial's densification around Transit Hub rule does not trump Secondary Plans,...
 
There's not really much up there to begin with in that asphalt desert to aid in calming the winds...

Wind conditions are worsened by default when you build sheer walls around which prevailing winds must travel.

This can be mitigated through design, and modeled to show whether the mitigation is has been successful.

Proponents are required to submit wind studies showing what the impacts of their buildings are; and expected to create 'reasonable' conditions for pedestrians.

In this case, the City is unsatisfied w/the current result.
 
Wind conditions are worsened by default when you build sheer walls around which prevailing winds must travel.

This can be mitigated through design, and modeled to show whether the mitigation is has been successful.

Proponents are required to submit wind studies showing what the impacts of their buildings are; and expected to create 'reasonable' conditions for pedestrians.

In this case, the City is unsatisfied w/the current result.
I guess it was the difference between windy and really windy after the fact that got The City's err on this. So fair enough!
 

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