Toronto Ïce Condominiums at York Centre | 234.07m | 67s | Lanterra | a—A

I highly doubt a line of condos following the Gardiner's path would be built if it's ever buried. For starters, Lakeshore still exists, and would likely continue to exist in some form as a surface arterial. Secondly, the logistics of building over an active highway tunnel would be very intense for all but a few very high profile, expensive projects. I don't even know if it could be done. Where would all of the necessary supports go? They'd be intersecting the roadway.
 
I dunno, to tell you the truth. I just think that with engineering, where there's a will and clever thinking, there's a way. Sheer conjecture on my part. But one thing I don't see happening is the Gardiner staying up indefinitely. I expect it and the Lakeshore would simply merge into one surface arterial. Eventually.
 
As Egotrippin states, there is next to no land under the Gardiner that is not already being used. Most of it is taken up by the Lake Shore (quick note: it's two words), so virtually all of the free land you want for your tax-dollar-recuping towers does not exist. Only a short section east of Cherry Street has nothing underneath it. From there west it's Lake Shore all the way to Dan Leckie Way (other than a couple of short, narrow patches by Spadina) where the Lake Shore comes out from under it, and the underside west of Dan Leckie is now being used as Panorama's forecourt. West of that you get the Loblaws warehouse. West of Bathurst the Onni Fort York condominium projects will be using the underside for their forecourts. West of that you get the new Fort York Visitor Centre going in under the highway. West of that, the highway starts dropping down to surface level of course, with the Exhibition GO station tucked in under there. It's all pretty well used already.

42
 
interchange42 said:
As Egotrippin states, there is next to no land under the Gardiner that is not already being used. Most of it is taken up by the Lake Shore (quick note: it's two words), so virtually all of the free land you want for your tax-dollar-recuping towers does not exist. Only a short section east of Cherry Street has nothing underneath it. From there west it's Lake Shore all the way to Dan Leckie Way (other than a couple of short, narrow patches by Spadina) where the Lake Shore comes out from under it, and the underside west of Dan Leckie is now being used as Panorama's forecourt. West of that you get the Loblaws warehouse. West of Bathurst the Onni Fort York condominium projects will be using the underside for their forecourts. West of that you get the new Fort York Visitor Centre going in under the highway. West of that, the highway starts dropping down to surface level of course, with the Exhibition GO station tucked in under there. It's all pretty well used already.

42
Click to expand...

Agreed. The only way you could get any significant land back is to bury the Gardiner and the Union rail tracks in a single stacked tunnel. That way, you get a nice condo lined boulevard in Lake Shore, and you get to reclaim all of the rail lands for either residential/office use, or as parkland.

To me, the rail corridor is a bigger barrier to the Waterfront than the Gardiner is. I think the thing that people don't really think of is that there are actually 2 layers of city between the CBD and the Waterfront. There's the area between the Gardiner and the lake, but there's also the area between the Gardiner and the rail corridor. This area has been slowly (and more recently pretty quickly) developing, but it's still sort of it's own little world, wedged between the rail corridor and the Gardiner.
 
interchange42 said:
As Egotrippin states, there is next to no land under the Gardiner that is not already being used. Most of it is taken up by the Lake Shore (quick note: it's two words), so virtually all of the free land you want for your tax-dollar-recuping towers does not exist. Only a short section east of Cherry Street has nothing underneath it. From there west it's Lake Shore all the way to Dan Leckie Way (other than a couple of short, narrow patches by Spadina) where the Lake Shore comes out from under it, and the underside west of Dan Leckie is now being used as Panorama's forecourt. West of that you get the Loblaws warehouse. West of Bathurst the Onni Fort York condominium projects will be using the underside for their forecourts. West of that you get the new Fort York Visitor Centre going in under the highway. West of that, the highway starts dropping down to surface level of course, with the Exhibition GO station tucked in under there. It's all pretty well used already.

42
Click to expand...

Ahh, well. T'was a thought. Going to make it interesting on the Gardiner, supporting the crazy traffic loads down the road.

Speaking of roads, gotta hit the road. Annual xmas trip eastward. Merry Christmas everyone.
 
Getting OT...but in any case...

gweed:

To me, the rail corridor is a bigger barrier to the Waterfront than the Gardiner is. I think the thing that people don't really think of is that there are actually 2 layers of city between the CBD and the Waterfront. There's the area between the Gardiner and the lake, but there's also the area between the Gardiner and the rail corridor. This area has been slowly (and more recently pretty quickly) developing, but it's still sort of it's own little world, wedged between the rail corridor and the Gardiner.
Click to expand...

The "problem" is that without the Gardiner, the piece of land between the lake and the rail corridor is substantial in width and is "neighourhood sized" - the Gardiner/Lake Shore Blvd subdivides that space further and creates a no man's land. Walk down York Street - even with PwC/Telus/MLS (and Ice to be) the experience still sucked thanks to the above. I don't see how that can be improved unless the corridor is rationalized and the span above these major N-S arterials turned into proper "gateways" with suitably attractive architectural treatment.

AoD
 
Lenser said:
I dunno, to tell you the truth. I just think that with engineering, where there's a will and clever thinking, there's a way. Sheer conjecture on my part. But one thing I don't see happening is the Gardiner staying up indefinitely. I expect it and the Lakeshore would simply merge into one surface arterial. Eventually.
Click to expand...

If 501 Yonge (which I want to be called Blue Jeans Condo or Blue Jeyns Condo) can be built over a diagonal subway... I'm sure engineers can figure out how to buiild a massive condo over a big buried highway.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
Getting OT...but in any case...

gweed:



The "problem" is that without the Gardiner, the piece of land between the lake and the rail corridor is substantial in width and is "neighourhood sized" - the Gardiner/Lake Shore Blvd subdivides that space further and creates a no man's land. Walk down York Street - even with PwC/Telus/MLS (and Ice to be) the experience still sucked thanks to the above. I don't see how that can be improved unless the corridor is rationalized and the span above these major N-S arterials turned into proper "gateways" with suitably attractive architectural treatment.

AoD
Click to expand...

I get what you're saying. However, I think that walking under the Simcoe or York St underpasses of the rail corridor has just as much, if not more, of a psychological effect of "separation", than walking under the Gardiner/across Lake Shore does. That may be just my personal opinion though. I agree that they're both far less than ideal though.

Hopefully once the Union Station reno is done, and some new connections on the north and south side of the tracks are built, it will seem like less of a barrier, because there will be more options to cross it.

But you have to admit, when you stand on the Spadina overpass looking west, where on one side you have City Place, and the other Front St, you can't help but notice the massive gap between them that the rail corridor provides. Once the condo boom stretches further west too, it'll seem like a wasteland in the middle of a high rise district.
 
But you have to admit, when you stand on the Spadina overpass looking west, where on one side you have City Place, and the other Front St, you can't help but notice the massive gap between them that the rail corridor provides. Once the condo boom stretches further west too, it'll seem like a wasteland in the middle of a high rise district.
Click to expand...

Of course it does - but that's separation between the city and the neighbourhood. Gardiner subdivides the latter - it's a whole different barrier effect - and one that actually affects how properties along the edge on both sides are developed. The rail corridor for better or worse is managed much better in that regard (e.g. at St. Lawrence) - it make no attempt to be transparent (visually and materially), it's an edge that has more in common with physical barriers than psychological ones).

AoD
 
Last edited:
macookie said:
If 501 Yonge can be built over a diagonal subway... I'm sure engineers can figure out how to buiild a massive condo over a big buried highway.
Click to expand...

On top of a big buried highway would be a big surface Lake Shore Blvd. So, do you want the Lake Shore buried in effect too, by building condos on bridges above it? Oh yeah, and where are you going to get the money to bury the Gardiner in the first place?

42
 
Yes, we have been digressing somewhat from the topic as of late in threads for projects close to the Gardiner. I appreciate the sly bury remark, but would prefer to introduce this spanner into the works.

42
 
I'm concerned about the disappearance of the silly swiss cheese hats. I like silly hats and though I don't wear them myself, I know lots of forum folk do. I suspect aA was embarrassed about displaying such irreverence and sought permission to eliminate the slices before someone confirmed the stink. Too bad. We could use some whimsy in the skyline. aA has made a lot of cookies, too bad they couldn't slice us some cheese.

But I digress... back to the Gardiner.
 
You must log in or register to post here.

Back
Top