Thornhill - Yonge to become people place

[Disparishun]

I wonder what the boundaries of the re-formed town would be. On the west side, it's quite easy - the CN/GO Newmarket Sub, on the east side, a bit more up-in-the air, but 404 would be perfect, CN Bala Sub I guess reasonable. The 407 would obviously be the northern border.

There's a map for the Thornhill political riding here. East-west, it's the 400 to the 404, so it basically subsumes Concord. West of Bathurst to the 400, the northern boundary is Rutherford, which seems odd historically, but now makes sense in light of Vaughan's and developers' (are the two any different?) efforts to push Thornhill northward: Thornhill Woods, the Thornhill North Community Centre, and so forth.

Without Thornhill, Vaughan and Markham would still have all sorts of developable land.

That's for sure!

 

[jaycola]

It's official!
Urban Toronto is the home of the Thornhill secessionist movement.

But in terms of boundries of our new town, I think the CN line west of Dufferin should be the western boundry due to the primarily residential nature of Thornhill. On the East I agree the 404 should be the eastern edge. Also Thornhill Woods and Dufferin Hill, east and west of Dufferin south of Rutherford, should be included in the new Thornhill.

 

[adma]

The split of the Village of Thornhill down the middle was really unfortunate, while each other Yonge Street town remained intact all the way up to Lake Simcoe.

Perhaps an excuse for allowing that to be so was that Thornhill was never officially incorporated as a village--at most, it was only a "police village", but its halves were always split between Vaughan and Markham Township. Unfortunately, regionalization in 1971 maintained that split--I suppose that Thornhill was not deemed "important enough" to merit its own municipality, even though it seems logical now as a stapling together of the Vaughan/Markham panhandles...

 

[ShonTron]

Hmm. I saw maps from the 1960s that showed Bolton, Thornhill, Malton and Maple as municipal entities. So there was some local autonomy at least (control of local works and public safety). Interesting though.

 

[adma]

Of those four, only Bolton was an actual (as opposed to "police") village. Though it's also worth considering that in those pre-regional days, it was typical for even local maps to depict only city/town/village while paying townships and their boundaries no mind.

You can also tell from old provincial municipal directories: for each county, the "real" towns and villages are listed as separate entities from townships, but the police villages are hived off to a section in the back (with their populations often split according to which township, or county--can't remember which, or both--they were part of. Yes, as with Thornhill, there were a lot of "border-straddlers".)

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

I would say the general borders are from Dufferin to the 404, Steeles to 7.
I guess you could throw Thornhill Woods in, though that's really a developer name more than a historical reality, I think.
Amusingly, I've seen ads for "Upper Thornhill Estates" north of Major Mac. It's nice to know just how marketable a name TH is, but that's gettina bit absurd.
If you were ACTUALLY seceding I guess you'd want Concord too, for the employment base.

If Thornhill were a municipality it would be built-out, so it's not depriving V and Mkm of developable land. Au contraire, it would be depriving them of super-prime retail, commerical and residential which is already there, however. That doesn't even count the subway and other Yonge-based infrastructure.

It would also deprive them of redevelopment opportunities along Yonge and that stretch of Hwy 7.

In my experience ,people in Thornhill identify themselves as such, as opposed to Vaughan or Markham residents; this is particularly true in Vaughan where the heritage aspect isn't as entrenched and where people tend to be, ahem, not entirely proud of the local government. I honestly think a secession referendum would do pretty well (especially on Vaughan). Depending on the terms I bet it would produce a more definitive result than either of the two Quebec referenda

 

[Chuck]

Secession is a neat idea, but I really don't see the benefit. Similar to Toronto, most major services are already operated on a regional level, such as police, transit, health care, and schooling. Splitting would add a lot of administrative costs, given that a new fire department, works, parks, city council, garbage pickup, etc would have to be created. In terms of local identity, it's already there - having grown up in Thornhill myself, it was only when I reached about 12 that I learned that I technically lived in Markham. My stupid teachers, who didn't live in the area, taught us that Markham extended to Dufferin because so did Thornhill. Seriously, no one up there really gives a hoot about Markham or Vaughan.

The main benefit of splitting would be that urban planning along Yonge would be a priority. However, Markham has already demonstrated that it's capable of positive urban planning for Thornhill, even if only on the east side. If Vaughan buys in, then problem solved.

Thornhill might only benefit if it joined Toronto - lower residential taxes, better transit, free transferring to TTC, free access to the much better Toronto library system, and so on. Plus that would increase the chances of better urban planning along Yonge St.

 

[ShonTron]

Thornhill might only benefit if it joined Toronto - lower residential taxes, better transit, free transferring to TTC, free access to the much better Toronto library system, and so on. Plus that would increase the chances of better urban planning along Yonge St.

The only problem with that idea is there wouldn't be a North Yonge Subway, you'd get Yonge Transit City instead.

 

[oreoshack]

just to add note, i'm getting the feeling that people on this forum are painting the whole of thornhill as this perfect little suburb on a hill. there are plenty of 'ghetto-ey' places in thornhill. between clark and arnold on the east side of yonge st, there are a bunch of mid-rise apartment blocks that are pretty bad. i would know, i went to school right beside them. thornhill isnt that special

 

[Disparishun]

just to add note, i'm getting the feeling that people on this forum are painting the whole of thornhill as this perfect little suburb on a hill. there are plenty of 'ghetto-ey' places in thornhill. between clark and arnold on the east side of yonge st, there are a bunch of mid-rise apartment blocks that are pretty bad. i would know, i went to school right beside them. thornhill isnt that special

Well, what do you mean by "perfect little suburb on a hill" and by "ghetto-ey", and what posts gave you this feeling you've been getting?

 

[scarberiankhatru]

just to add note, i'm getting the feeling that people on this forum are painting the whole of thornhill as this perfect little suburb on a hill. there are plenty of 'ghetto-ey' places in thornhill. between clark and arnold on the east side of yonge st, there are a bunch of mid-rise apartment blocks that are pretty bad. i would know, i went to school right beside them. thornhill isnt that special

You know an area with over 100,000 residents is doing just fine when its ghettoness can be isolated/reduced to individual buildings...

 

[adma]

Well, I know the zone he's talking about, and that's definitely what passes for Thornhill's "poor part". Pretty compact, though, and hardly the sort of thing that'd dissuade investment in Thornhill...

Besides, what truly healthy city *doesn't* have those parts of town?

 

[jaycola]

The succession talk, as unrealistic as it really is, and the initial thread came about as a result of the poor state of Yonge Street in Thornhill.

Yonge Street, where ever it runs through a residential area, should be treated as an urban natural resource. Markham and Vaughan, both with a general focus on designating new land (read as further expanding sprawl) for development have left Yonge St to flounder.

I think most here would agree that the value of lower cost rentals as well as many subsidized and co-operative dwellings are a benifit to the urban fabric of Thornhill. Too many people think of it as a community of the exclusively wealthy while the exact opposite is true.

 

[TJ O'Pootertoot]

Well, I know the zone he's talking about, and that's definitely what passes for Thornhill's "poor part". Pretty compact, though, and hardly the sort of thing that'd dissuade investment in Thornhill...

Besides, what truly healthy city *doesn't* have those parts of town?

Exactly - it's a pretty small segment overall but no community is perfect.
How far do you have to walk from those "ghetto" apartments to gated mansions? I'd say about 200 metres, tops.

Those mansions along Thornridge/Arnold etc aren't exactly typical of Thornhill either, but overall it's a pretty middle/upper class community, I'd say.

Similarly there is some subsidized housing near Royal Orchard but it borders the rather nice Cricklewood neighbourhood - so it's not homogenous by any means, is the point. And jaycola's point - that having affordable housing is a good not a bad thing - is something I'd agree with.

It's a burb so it's a lot of detached houses but Thornhill is more "urban" than a lot of the rest of York Region.

Finally, to circle back to Yonge Street, there may be limits as to what you can do with it but I think it's a pretty underused "resource" but the subway combined with real planning efforts in Vaughan and Markham have a chance to turn that around.

 

[Uncle Teddy]

The subway will make a major difference along Yonge Street. Most of those strip malls will be gone within 10 years of the subway showing up.