The Tenor (10 Dundas St E, Ent Prop Trust, 10s, Baldwin & Franklin)

[MetroMan]

Technically, what you say is possible because the theatres don't lay on top of the parking garage. It straddles over the garage, OCAD style. Demolishing and excavating under the AMC would prove challenging but it could be done. It would probably be cheaper just to demolish the whole lot and rebuild though.

 

[MetroMan]

Even signage would be great to tell you the name of the building.
Also reverting back to Metropolis would be great.

There's no signage because the building never had a name. It was Metropolis while it waited to be built and the naming rights were bought by St.Joseph Media to become Toronto Life Square just before it was opened.

What allegedly then happened was that PenEquity didn't finish the building as was promised to the name rights buyer and Toronto Life didn't want their name on this abomination. They fought in court to have their name removed.

All that time, Toronto Life refused to pay for the signage that would identify the building with their name so we never got signs. Now it's temporarily called 10 Dundas East until naming rights are once again sold or until a point where the new owners decide to hold off that sale and call it Metropolis until the image and reputation of the building help justify the sale of the naming rights for the price that EPR wants to sell them at.

 

[whatever]

Would it really be cheaper to demolish the entire building and start over? I could see it being less complicated, but in terms of cost it would be pretty much the same money to demolish the garage, excavate, and rebuild whether there was an AMC floating overhead or not, no?

 

[MetroMan]

For one, you wouldn't have the ability to use a crane while demolishing/excavating/building under an existing structure. That would prove to be pretty complex and it would take much longer than constructing a traditional building, both of which would add significant cost to the project. Further, integrating a new building into the West building would require rebuilding many of the common facilities (i.e. elevators) so that they could share a lobby -- not sharing a lobby, there would be no point to doing this.

That said, the space could be put to better use than a parking garage but as it stands now, several improvements could be made to straighten out the confusing layout and give the building a pleasant look both inside and out.

 

[Archivist]

I'm surprised that the thread took the turn towards demolishing and starting over (not a bad proposition, but I think at this point unlikely). And here we are NOT talking about the theme park on the roof. Hello people? I'm so disappointed in all of us.

I've never really recovered from seeing amusement rides cheek-by-jowl with commercial buildings in Japan (see below). Could Metropolis/10 Dundas actually end up with rides on the top? I have to say, in a purely tacky way, it would thrill me. I've often thought it would have been cool if the advertising tower across the street were open to the public for viewing, but an amusement park on the roof would go a long way to assuaging that sense of loss. What kind of rides could they possible have up there?

I'm serious that I think it would be cool - in terms of animating the square, in terms of providing a view of the city while sitting on a ride, I just don't see this as anything other than a big horrible tacky win for the city. Not holding my breath though.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

With signed leases and the investment retailers have put into their rentals here there's no way it's coming down anytime soon. I'll be surprised to see much in the way of external improvements except the signs (which is needed). I'm willing to bet that the bulk of the renos. will take place inside to finish the complex off and make the spaces easier to navigate & attractive. Building amusement rides on roof is embarrassing. What is really needed is for AMC to build up another level (presuming the building can support that) and put in 4 or 5 desperately needed IMAX screens.

 

[MatthewK]

I've been waiting in angst to hear about anything that could mean demolition of this thing since it was built. I don't think expense should be an object when questioning an intersection the city itself places so much pride in. The building is a shame, there's no two ways about it. This corner needs a timeless project - metropolis is anything but, and ugly.

 

[Patriot]

Based the website, the new owners seem great. Hopefully they'll make some quality improvements inside and outside - soon.

 

[Sir Novelty Fashion]

I'm not interested in hearing talk of demolition. This building deserves so much more. I won't settle for anything short of detonation.

 

[Irishmonk]

^ Or sucked into a singularity with a drop of that red matter from Star Trek.

 

[MetroMan]

I've been waiting in angst to hear about anything that could mean demolition of this thing since it was built. I don't think expense should be an object when questioning an intersection the city itself places so much pride in. The building is a shame, there's no two ways about it. This corner needs a timeless project - metropolis is anything but, and ugly.

As much as us geeks here would like to see a demolition and rebuilding, in reality, things aren't that simple. The city isn't going to even think of expropriating this corner again and they're not in the development business so unless the developer has very deep pockets and a willingness to empty them, this building is here to stay for at least another 20 years. The FutureShop and the AMC have their busiest locations here so they're not going to give them up. The restaurants are ALWAYS busy so forget about them leaving.

The only way to fix this mess is to do it while the businesses continue to operate, section by section, floor by floor. It's not that it can't be done, it's that PenEquity put together the least expensive way of calling the building "completed". They ditched the ceilings, the floors and any other finishings that could have made this building attractive. The reason why it looks so deplorable (aside from the dumb cosmetic decisions i.e. fake fans) is because it still looks like it's under construction. It doesn't look finished.

 

[MetroMan]

Interior Design Competition

I think what this place needs is a high profile interior design competition. Do a TV show to finance it and get great participation and free advertising for the building.

This would be arguably the most incredible showcase of an interior designer's work so all the big names would want in. The challenge: Take a hideous building at Toronto's busiest intersection and transform it into a cutting edge interior design jewel.

Look at that massively underused lobby. It's huge! Imagine what could be done with it.

The foodcourt isn't actually half bad. It's just dark. The window area overlooking Yonge is a nice place to hang out. It should be made into a carpeted café with lounge chairs and sofas.

The view up the escalator well through the entire building is a great design opportunity. Finish the ceiling and hang an art piece down through to the first floor.

The problem with navigation could be solved with an additional escalator on the second/third floor. The down escalator currently there is needed to funnel out people leaving the AMC but it isn't an excuse to not include one in the general escalator well.

My most ambitious suggestion to improve this entire building would be to put the entrance where it should be: on the corner of Yonge & Dundas. Swap the Adidas store to where the lobby is now and put the new lobby on the corner. This would allow for entrances on both Yonge and on Dundas.

FutureShop could then be expanded to include the space where the escalators are on the second floor which would allow them to use their "lunch room with a million dollar view" as a sales floor. I always envisioned that space as a perfect TV show room. Have TV's hanging on the wall facing the square, glowing through the windows.

In summary, this building is spacious and brand new. There's no reason a competent interior design firm couldn't make it an amazing space. Strip it down (more??) and start with a blank slate.

 

[Towered]

This building's greatest defender, Caltrane74, has been strangely quiet about this announcement...

 

[Observer Walt]

I'm not interested in hearing talk of demolition. This building deserves so much more. I won't settle for anything short of detonation.

Several people seem to be breathlessly advocating for demolition, apparently seriously. Take a deep breath folks and get a bit of a grip.

The narrow view: the building has leases in effect. I'd be surprised if AMC, for example, has a lease any shorter than 15 years. You can't just kick them out, nor, for that matter, could you kick out Ryerson University who have property rights here.

In the wider context: the corner was a disaster for years, during the much-delayed construction. Who would really want to see that resumed?

The place needs some upgrading. Now that credible owners are in place, apparently for the long term, I hope something gets done, but it will involve the existing building. Find a couple of good architects with expertise in interior design and let them go at it.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Observer Walt:

In the wider context: the corner was a disaster for years, during the much-delayed construction. Who would really want to see that resumed?

In this case, ignoring for a second that demolition is an impossiblity for reasons you have already suggested - I do think demolition is a desirable outcome given certain aspects of the project (e.g. massing) is pretty much impossible to ameliorate through other means. Walking down Victoria St, for example, have turned into a distinctly unpleasant experience precisely because of the monolithic bulk of the building looming over the street.

That said, I would suggest the following improvements, which are more plausable in nature (on top of the given interior renos):

1) widen the sidewalk on Victoria by making it a one way street
2) close the parking garage and replace with multistory retail that opens up visually to the street - excavate the parking lot site for additional retal space that allows for a more significant anchor store (instead of a dinky Shoppers and Xtreme)
3) reclad the exterior - particularly in ways that would break down the mass (through windows, different materials, adding texture and depth)
4) densify - build on top with a tower form at the southern part of the site if possible.

AoD