Art Vandelay
Active Member
RioCan Square anyone?
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The Tenor (10 Dundas St E, Ent Prop Trust, 10s, Baldwin & Franklin)
whatever
Senior Member
What businesses closed? Everything was still open the last time I was there (last weekend)
Tuscani01
Senior Member
Cinnabon, the gelato place and some restaurant in the food court.
alklay
Senior Member
And a retailer or two on the foodcourt floor have failed.
MetroMan
Senior Member
Well, with the maze like traffic patterns a person must take to navigate the building, I'm not surprised pedestrian traffic within the TLS suffers as a result, leading to predicted business models falling through.
You'd expect a commercial property at the corner of the busiest intersection in Toronto to be filled with people from open to close, so as a retailer you'd anticipate that in your business model. PenEquity didn't optimize the potential (that's the understatement of the century) for through traffic so in the end, the numbers didn't add up.
The main entrance to the lobby should have been right at the corner where Adidas is, there should have been a proper flow of escalators throughout the building and all shops on Yonge should have been designed open ended on both sides so that you can enter through Yonge and access the lobby and vice versa: access the stores from within the lobby.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the new owners fix up the building (i.e. ceilings, floors, lighting), but reconfiguring it at this point for optimal traffic flow would require extensive reconstructive surgery condemning most of the building to close for months.
You'd expect a commercial property at the corner of the busiest intersection in Toronto to be filled with people from open to close, so as a retailer you'd anticipate that in your business model. PenEquity didn't optimize the potential (that's the understatement of the century) for through traffic so in the end, the numbers didn't add up.
The main entrance to the lobby should have been right at the corner where Adidas is, there should have been a proper flow of escalators throughout the building and all shops on Yonge should have been designed open ended on both sides so that you can enter through Yonge and access the lobby and vice versa: access the stores from within the lobby.
I wouldn't be surprised to see the new owners fix up the building (i.e. ceilings, floors, lighting), but reconfiguring it at this point for optimal traffic flow would require extensive reconstructive surgery condemning most of the building to close for months.
Tuscani01
Senior Member
Um, did you not read the article? The building being sold has NOTHING to do with the building itself, but the loans that were taken out to build it.
The building itself is turning profits, and the businesses inside are doing quite well.
MetroMan
Senior Member
Here's a crude demonstration of my thought process:
Current situation
Adidas, a niche store (catering to only a fraction of pedestrians in the area) occupies the most important commercial corner in the city.
Also, each store along the Yonge streetwall is close ended. You can only enter from Yonge. There is no access to Toronto Life Square with the exception of FutureShop.
Improved traffic flow
The Adidas store and the TLS lobby have approximate square footage and shapes. In this scenario, they would swap positions.
The main entrance into Toronto Life Square would be right at the busiest corner in Toronto. There would also be an entrance on Yonge.
Escalators would go up from the lobby to the Future Shop/second level with room for both up and DOWN escalators on the upper landing, removing the current confusing setup.
Yonge Street shops are open ended, so customers can enter via the TLS lobby as well as through Yonge St and into the main complex.
Post design note: I didn't take into consideration the Starbucks in the current lobby. It could go along the Yonge St. glass wall giving it exposure from the street and a Yonge St. entrance.
Current situation
Adidas, a niche store (catering to only a fraction of pedestrians in the area) occupies the most important commercial corner in the city.
Also, each store along the Yonge streetwall is close ended. You can only enter from Yonge. There is no access to Toronto Life Square with the exception of FutureShop.
Improved traffic flow
The Adidas store and the TLS lobby have approximate square footage and shapes. In this scenario, they would swap positions.
The main entrance into Toronto Life Square would be right at the busiest corner in Toronto. There would also be an entrance on Yonge.
Escalators would go up from the lobby to the Future Shop/second level with room for both up and DOWN escalators on the upper landing, removing the current confusing setup.
Yonge Street shops are open ended, so customers can enter via the TLS lobby as well as through Yonge St and into the main complex.
Post design note: I didn't take into consideration the Starbucks in the current lobby. It could go along the Yonge St. glass wall giving it exposure from the street and a Yonge St. entrance.
Tuscani01
Senior Member
The opened ended shops wouldn't work. The back of the stores are used for stock and staff space. One side would have to be closed, and the units would also need access to shipping and receiving. I do agree that the future shop entrance on Yonge should have been branded as an entrance to TLS though.
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MetroMan
Senior Member
Um, yes I did read the article. I'm alluding to the closed businesses, all of which are located in positions that suffered from reduced traffic flow that could have been improved with a better layout.
As I said, you can't get any better exposure to pedestrian traffic anywhere in this city than on the corner of Y&D. If some businesses are failing due to reduced foot traffic, then there's an obvious problem with the traffic flow in the building.
Tuscani01
Senior Member
2 of the 3 businesses that have closed were right in front of the entrance to Dundas Station. Many people use that entrance every day (more than you see going upstairs toward the food court). I would say they had one of the best locations in the building, yet still closed.
If your business can fail at Y&D, maybe you should be questioning your business practices instead of blaming the building?
a) there was no market for your product at the site
b) your product sucked
c) branding/promotion was weak
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Dan416
Senior Member
I agree that having Adidas on the corner was a mistake.
I think CadFair would be the best buyer for this building. Or maybe Oxford to provide some friendly competition. Although Oxford might not want to touch this travesty.
I think CadFair would be the best buyer for this building. Or maybe Oxford to provide some friendly competition. Although Oxford might not want to touch this travesty.
Torontovibe
Senior Member
I agree that the entrance most definitely, should have been on the corner, not a short ways down Dundas but there were lots of bad decisions about this place. I'm so glad PE is out of the picture and hope for some kind of serious change. (give that thing a proper ceiling!)
deerparker
Active Member
There are open-ended shops at Eaton Centre that appear to work - Armani Exchange, Smart Set and French Connection all have entrances to both Yonge Street and the mall.
Conrad Black
Senior Member
Recession anyone?
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
There's going to be regular turnover in the food court(s) regardless of the architecture/pedestrian flow/economy. That's not really an indication of anything. If some of the bigger anchor stores were struggling, that'd be worrisome.
I like the idea presented for reconfiguring the indoor space - it'd be interesting to see what others could come up with. Some of the interior design descisions, especially with regard to escalator placement, are completely wack. You can sit in the food court and watch people, having finished their meals, try to figure out how the hell to get downstairs. It's not intuitive at all.
I like the idea presented for reconfiguring the indoor space - it'd be interesting to see what others could come up with. Some of the interior design descisions, especially with regard to escalator placement, are completely wack. You can sit in the food court and watch people, having finished their meals, try to figure out how the hell to get downstairs. It's not intuitive at all.