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The End Of The Road: Saying Goodbye To Freeways

Instead of instantly jumping to apocalyptic scenarios, why can't we talk about sections of highway that could be removed or improved in Toronto?

The section of the Gardiner between Jarvis and the DVP is overbuilt and underused. It runs right up against the water, preventing development that could bring in significant tax revenue for the city. Surely there's a strong case for taking a good look at doing SOMETHING with it.
 
Rob Ford said "The War On The Car Is Over". When Ford won the election, crude oil was at $83 a barrel. Today it's at $106 a barrel, a 27% increase in 5 months.

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W.K. Lis, have you considered sharing charts, statistics and links to media stories related to peak oil with this forum? I don't think that would ever get repetitive.
 
Taking a snapshot of 5 months (which really is a pretty short amount of time in the grand scheme of things, and completely ignores external factors that influenced the price), and projecting it as a long term trend is pretty disingenuous. Gas is obviously not going to continue to increase in price at that rate. Will it increase? Absolutely. But the external factors that have caused this increase in the past 5 months are likely never to be repeated again (when's the next time the Middle East is going to simultaneously errupt in revolution?).

And PS: The rise in the price of oil had nothing to do with Rob Ford declaring that the war on cars is over, hate to break it to you...
 
THIS JUST IN: There has been a 100% increase in severe earthquakes over the past 2 weeks. There have been two in the past 2 weeks, compared with 0 the 2 weeks prior to that. By extrapolating that, in 14 weeks we're going to be having a severe earthquake every day!

And all this after Ford declared "the war on the Earth's techtonic plates is over". Pitty.
 
gweed123 said:
THIS JUST IN: There has been a 100% increase in severe earthquakes over the past 2 weeks. There have been two in the past 2 weeks, compared with 0 the 2 weeks prior to that.
Click to expand...

What calculator did you use to determine that going from 0 to 2 is a '100% increase'?
 
OK some of us feel that Gas prices will eventually level off and stop increasing. And some of us believe that even if it went to 5$ a liter it wouldnt matter because by them we will all be driving electric cars. Even if these two things did happen (BIG IF) where would all the new cars go. We are growing as a population but our road space is the same as 50 years ago.. Should we make the 401 20 lanes wide? is that even possible? WOuld that fix anything? How about a double decker DVP and QEW? How much would that really cost... The scary thing is as expensive as public transit will cost us to build it will be cheaper then many other alternatives we come up with... Unless I am wrong and you believe there is more then enough road space?
 
The tech behind electric cars looks promising but there are logistical challenges, particularly when it comes to infrastructure for charging the vehicles -- easier in the suburbs where everyone has a driveway and garage, but challenging and expensive in urban areas -- and the increased demand on the electrical grid.

Encouraging people to live closer to work and investing in public transportation are winning strategies, and incredibly doable as well, despite the cost. We need a national transit strategy.
 
sixrings said:
OK some of us feel that Gas prices will eventually level off and stop increasing. And some of us believe that even if it went to 5$ a liter it wouldnt matter because by them we will all be driving electric cars. Even if these two things did happen (BIG IF) where would all the new cars go. We are growing as a population but our road space is the same as 50 years ago.. Should we make the 401 20 lanes wide? is that even possible? WOuld that fix anything? How about a double decker DVP and QEW? How much would that really cost... The scary thing is as expensive as public transit will cost us to build it will be cheaper then many other alternatives we come up with... Unless I am wrong and you believe there is more then enough road space?
Click to expand...

Gas prices likely won't level off considering the rise of the developing nations. Even if we developed a massive electric car system tomorrow, it won't be enough to permanently halt the rise in oil prices considering that nearly everything in our economy is manufactured using oil- including electric cars.

The big benefit I see in higher gas prices is a reduction in the offshoring of our economy. Here's hoping that we'll see some industry return in the near future!
 
GraphicMatt said:
Instead of instantly jumping to apocalyptic scenarios, why can't we talk about sections of highway that could be removed or improved in Toronto?

The section of the Gardiner between Jarvis and the DVP is overbuilt and underused. It runs right up against the water, preventing development that could bring in significant tax revenue for the city. Surely there's a strong case for taking a good look at doing SOMETHING with it.
Click to expand...

Likewise, the subway is used less lightly between King and Union, as people get off the train at King and then get on at Union*. Should we get rid of that short stretch of subway because it isn't used as much as other parts of the network?

"Network" is the key word here. Yes, there are some parts which may not be used as much as others, but it all connects together to create something bigger than the sum of its parts. If there is any highway which could be scaled down in the GTA, Allen Rd. between the 401 and Eglinton would be a prime candidate. I'm not suggesting to turn it into a pedestrian boulevard, but do something to break up the traffic so it doesn't all crush against Eglinton all at once.
 
Electrify said:
. If there is any highway which could be scaled down in the GTA, Allen Rd. between the 401 and Eglinton would be a prime candidate. I'm not suggesting to turn it into a pedestrian boulevard, but do something to break up the traffic so it doesn't all crush against Eglinton all at once.
Click to expand...

I think as much as we will fight living with less highways or with surface transit (LRT) it is likely to appear eventually in selected areas. As a result I would suggest that the FINCH LRT should continue (even if its only as a LRT experiment) and the ALLEN should be reworked into a less highway like street (Again as an experiment).

We can debate all we want on here whether surface LRT will work or not or if The removal of the gardner will work or not... BUt if we had some experimental projects to look to (which were local to TORONTOnians) then people would be able to make better choices and arguments for the future..
 
sixrings said:
OK some of us feel that Gas prices will eventually level off and stop increasing. And some of us believe that even if it went to 5$ a liter it wouldnt matter because by them we will all be driving electric cars. Even if these two things did happen (BIG IF) where would all the new cars go. We are growing as a population but our road space is the same as 50 years ago.. Should we make the 401 20 lanes wide? is that even possible? WOuld that fix anything? How about a double decker DVP and QEW? How much would that really cost... The scary thing is as expensive as public transit will cost us to build it will be cheaper then many other alternatives we come up with... Unless I am wrong and you believe there is more then enough road space?
Click to expand...

Once public transit gets up to snuff, I believe that cars will primarily serve the 'other' trips, as opposed to commuting trips. Realistically, the only times that our road system is really stressed is during morning and afternoon peak periods. Besides those, it flows pretty well. The issue isn't not enough road space. The issue is too many people trying to get to the same place at the same time using the same method. If a lot of those who commute by car switch to TTC or GO because of an increase in the price of gas, congestion, while it won't disappear, will be reduced.

Basically, I'm saying that once we have an effective public transit system, the majority of car trips will be trips that wouldn't easily be served by public transit. You will never completely eliminate the need for the car trip. Transit expansion should focus primarily on providing a viable option for reducing the need for COMMUTING car trips, because it's that those times of the day when road space is most sought-after, and our system is most stressed.
 
We're never going to serve ALL commutes with public transit. But we should definitely work to serve more.

I think about what they would need to do to make my commute doable by public transit. First, they'd have to rejoin Britannia Rd (which had been severed by the 401/410 interchange). Next they would have to merge Mississauga Transit and Brampton Transit and make a common Tomken Rd bus traversing the road in its entirety (or at least up to Steeles). Only then would public transit even be feasible for me (I consider 1 transfer feasible). But even then I'm sure it'd be slow. A BRT along Britannia would help. They just added a new lane to Britannia. It would have been better if it'd been a public transit lane.
 
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