T.O Comes To T.O.: The NFL Visits Toronto...

[Long Island Mike]

Everyone:
With the Thursday December 3rd date of the Buffalo Bills/New York Jets game approaching I have noticed promotions here in the New York area like this one from the New York Daily News and the Toronto Convention and
Visitors Association offering as a Grand Prize: Round Trip air for 4 between NY/NJ
and Toronto;Airport/Hotel transfer along with two nights there;Game tickets
and a Jets tailgate party before the Game.
Also mentioned is that all travelers flying MUST have a valid US Passport and NO Exceptions will be made concerning this(obviously due to flying between the US and Canada)

For more info this website was mentioned:
www.seetorontonow.com/jets

I wanted to mention this game and I was wondering how much it was being promoted in the Toronto and Buffalo areas.

The always-controversial Terrell Owens and the Buffalo Bills will be playing the Toronto game against the NYC-area based New York Jets. Owens and Toronto have the same nickname(T.O.)but are vastly different. I feel that T.O. will NOT remain with the Bills after this year and the Bills will be another NFL team that will not welcome him back...

As for the Jets: 2009 is the year that the Jets have cut all their NY ties-their training facility moved from Hofstra University in Hempstead,LI,NY to Florham Park,NJ this year. They have played their games at Giants Stadium
since 1984 when they moved over from Shea Stadium in Queens,NY. This is the final year for both the Jets and Giants at Giants Stadium-a new billion dollar stadium for both teams is being constructed next door and should open for the 2010 NFL Season.

I would have liked to have seen the Jets move back to New York/Long Island as their traditional fan base was and is what is "Physical Long Island" - The NYC Boroughs of Brooklyn and Queens along with Nassau and Suffolk Counties.
The move to NJ was away from this traditional base and it seems there aren't as many Jet fans as I recall when I was younger. I remember some of it well as I was one of those who recall as a kid growing up "Broadway" Joe Namath(Quarterback) and I will also mention that I was just 8 when the Jets won Super Bowl 3
16-7 over the heavily favored Baltimore Colts.

The Jets moving to NJ left the Bills as the only NFL team actually playing in NY State and we all remember interesting times like the early 90s-the Bills
losing FOUR consecutive Super Bowls. For a smaller market Buffalo and the WNY Community has supported the Bills even with current team owner Ralph Wilson's thought of moving them. It would be a hard blow to the WNY economy if the Bills move...even though I feel that Toronto could gain by having an NFL team even starting out at the Rogers Skydome.

Thoughts,memories and insight by Long Island Mike

 

[GenerationW]

I wanted to mention this game and I was wondering how much it was being promoted in the Toronto and Buffalo areas.

-promoted like mad in Toronto
-won't even be close to a sell-out because people would have to be mad to buy tickets for this especially at those prices
-Rogers is and will be giving away free tickets like mad (easily more than the 10-15K they gave out for last year's game)

This has been a massive and embarrassing disaster for Rogers.

 

[jn_12]

It really has been a disaster. Rogers was extremely arrogant from the start. First they forced people to buy a package that included all 8 games over the 5 year span at a rate that would make the tickets beyond the most expensive tickets in the NFL. In doing so, not only did they turn off many potential buyers here but they essentially priced out their Buffalo fans who might have made the trip up. They've been giving away tons of tickets. If you bought pretty much any Jays ticket package they gave you a bills ticket. If they sell out it'll be because they essentially opened the doors and let people in for next to nothing.

It's been hyped up quite a bit, but I think these games showed that Torontonians (who I would say are very interested in NFL football) just aren't Bills fans, nor are they interested in shelling out a hefty sum to see the Bills. From my experience Southern Ontario doesn't have roots with any single team and you're just as likely to see Browns, Steelers or Colts fans as you are Bills fans. Maybe only in Niagara and there are a majority of Bills fans (and there aren't many places in Ontario that have been hit harder than Niagara during the last couple years, so forget about them coming to Toronto to watch). I don't doubt the NFL could be a success if it came here, but it really needs to be a Toronto team rather than someone else's.

 

[Long Island Mike]

The NFL Visits Toronto: Good insight from all!

Everyone: Interesting thoughts from UT members about the December 3rd game. I now wonder how many tickets will be available now for NY Jets fans
that wish to make the trip to Toronto for this game.

I also did not realize that the NFL as a whole has support in Toronto but NOT the Bills so much. I also wonder now if there is an uprising of sorts concerning
the Bills-they have just fired their Head Coach Dick Jauron in the past days.

I hope that by noticing the lack of attendance by pricing tickets too high that this mistake is not made at future Toronto NFL games. Certain baseball teams
this year priced seats too high and had problems selling them-notably the NY Yankees. There is a limit what fans can pay and afford to attend pro sports.

Thoughts from LI MIKE

 

[Redroom Studios]

I used to be a Bills fan, growing up in Niagara Falls and I know that Ontario fans make up asignificant portion of fans at Bills home games in Orchard Park, NY. They go down there by the bus load, so I think there is something more than a lack of Bills fans causing the low attendance. Ticket prices and package deals are certainly a big part of it. The big negative I heard from American fans attending the game(s) in past years was that they missed the pre-game tail gate party that is such a tradition at US stadiums. They couldnt believe that there was not a parking lot cordoned off to allow the party type festivities that they are accustomed to. We are a bit uptight here - no drinking in public! In any case, I found it came off as quite an embarassment for Toronto between the complaints from US fans and the low attendance and lack of atmosphere at the game... having said all that I dont watch NFL football anymore, or Major League Baseball. There`s no way I`m gonna support egotistcal morons making $25 million a year.

 

[PukeGreen]

Why would I pay a ridiculous amount of money to see a sports team from another city, let alone another country, play here? I'm also annoyed by the way they close down all streets within a wide radius of the Rogers Centre when there's a game, snarling traffic -- because it's "NFL security policy" which apparently trumps the laws of our city.

I know the NFL is enormously popular in the US and Canada, but how much of that is due to gambling? Oh, and tailgating, which we can't do here. (And apparently because our laws forbid getting stupid drunk in parking lots filled with pickup-trucks we have no culture!)

I'm pleased that so few Torontonians are buying into this rip-off. I hope Rogers loses a bucket load of cache on this poorly conceived idea.

Ok, end of mini-rant.

 

[wonderboy416]

The marketing machine is in full effect.

As much as I hate Rogers, I hate MLSE that much more - so at least it's the lesser of two evils trying to pull the NFL into town.

 

[jn_12]

Well you don't have to worry about companies bringing an NFL team here beyond what is going on now with the arrangement between Rogers and the Bills. NFL teams cannot be owned by companies. So really MLSE and Rogers aren't in play in the long term. Mind you, Larry Tanenbaum, and the now deceased Ted Rogers along with mastermind Paul Godfrey were pretty much seen as the trio with the will and the way of bringing a team here. Now that Rogers has passed away, I don't think anyone knows if the Rogers family is still interested (they certainly aren't all that interested in owning the Jays). I think Tanenbaum and Godfrey probably have enough to secure a team on their own, but most likely we won't know for sure until Bills owner Ralph Wilson passes away (He's in his early 90s and he has said the team will go up for auction when he dies since no one in his family wants them). That might be the first chance to see just how much Tanenbaum wants a team. Otherwise there are a couple other teams in a bit of trouble like Jacksonville who might be looking to move at some point.

And in all fairness, I don't think anyone wanted this to fail. It's unfortunate that Rogers misunderstood the market and outpriced everyone, but it would have been great if these games were successes for everyone (fans, the bills, Rogers).

 

[GenerationW]

Think again. Quite a few people wanted this to fail, or predicted it would fail, or both. The mighty Rogers Corp was fleeced by a 90 year old man. Who knows -- this might add five more years to Ralph's life.

Tanenbaum I get, but what money does a third-rate carnival huckster like Godfrey have? No way he's got any serious coin (unless, of course, the rumours about his Sun tenure are true).

 

[GenerationW]

I hope Rogers loses a bucket load of cache on this poorly conceived idea.

You can stop hoping -- they'll lose a few bucketfuls when it's all over.

At least 1,500 free tickets were given away at the high school football playoff games that were played at the dome last week. That's only one example of the giveaways that are going on.

 

[jn_12]

Think again. Quite a few people wanted this to fail, or predicted it would fail, or both. The mighty Rogers Corp was fleeced by a 90 year old man. Who knows -- this might add five more years to Ralph's life.

Tanenbaum I get, but what money does a third-rate carnival huckster like Godfrey have? No way he's got any serious coin (unless, of course, the rumours about his Sun tenure are true).

People wanted it to (and/or thought it would) fail after they announced the ticket scheme and the cost. I'm in on that as well. I thought it would fail once they made those stupid mistakes. But unless you're a paranoid CFL fan or a Bills season ticket holder (which my Dad is) there wasn't much to be upset about when news was coming out that the Bills might play a game per season in Toronto. What reason would people have before the cost of these games was pushed onto the ticket prices? And whether Ralph fleeced Rogers or not (which he did), what does that matter to us? Ultimately, we have the choice to go or not, and if Rogers paid that much to get the games but then offered fair prices, we wouldn't care whatsoever about how much Rogers paid.

As for Godfrey, I didn't say he had enough money. I should have been more thorough and said "enough resources" but I thought it was implied. Godfrey is known for getting people with money together. I don't know Tanenbaum's net worth, but I'm sure he could alone could secure a team, but with Godfrey on board there are probably a lot more options available.

 

[milanista]

Although I'm totally in favour of having an NFL team in Toronto, this isn't the way to go about it.
NFL, and NBA and MLB players for that matter, seem to have some sort of problem playing in Canada. That makes it more difficult to attract talent to the Jays and Raptors, and in the end the team either ends up lagging behind for years (Jays) in both the standings and the actual stands themselves or the fans have to pay a huge premium (NFL) for the team to survive and actually be able to pay some big name players to come up here. It's really quite sad in my opinion, it's borderline racism. I understand the idea of wanting to play in your home country (most Italian players play soccer in Italy, most English players play soccer in England etc.) but when you're on the road for at least half the season and you're playing for a team in a city that is nowhere near the part of the country you're from (Ie: a player from Georgia playing for Seattle) I have to ask, does it really make a difference?
It's almost looked at as an act of charity when a big name NBA or MLB player plays in Canada. The Raptors are constantly struggling to keep their talent here, and when we do have good players on our teams it's almost a countdown to the day they're going to leave.

Also, in regards to NFL culture, Toronto and the Rogers Centre really don't fit in. Unlike the majority of NFL stadiums the Rogers Centre is in the downtown core. The vast majority of NFL stadiums are nowhere the centre of their respective cities, and in most cases not even in the city itself. Dallas Cowboys, New York Giants, New York Jets, Buffalo Bills and the list goes on. What do all these teams have in common? None of them play in the city for which they are named.
So it's not so much a culture thing, it's a location thing. And most NFL stadiums happen to be located in an area that is conducive to what we see as "NFL culture" translation: drinking and BBQing in massive parking lots outside the stadium before the game. Well we don't have massive parking lots outside our stadium and I'm actually quite proud of that. And the ones we do have near the Rogers stadium will inevitably become something in the near future. This is part of the reason it will always be difficult for the NFL to work here.

The other reason is TV money contracts, don't get me started on that.

 

[jn_12]

^ I agree with most of what you said. Maybe this time last year I would have agreed with you on the basis of the TV contracts but in thinking about it more I think you could make an argument that having Toronto involved in the NFL might be worth as much to US tv as having a team like Jacksonville or Buffalo in the league. As much as we're a huge market, it would have little effect on TV contracts in the US. But then again, how much of an effect do those two teams have? And if TV is so important, why is there no team in LA? (yes I know the reasons why there are currently no teams in LA, but you'd think a league would fight tooth and nail for a team to stay in their second biggest market. I mean, look at the NHL and Phoenix and the NHL's TV contract doesn't even deserve to be in the same sentence as the NFL's.)

Where the league can make a killing is in merchandise. Currently (much to the chagrin of Jerry Jones) the NFL has revenue sharing for its merchandise. A southern Ontario market could have a huge impact in that area. I mean, 100k jerseys at $100/each adds up.

I'm also not so sure that players don't want to play in Canada. The Jays from the mid 80s to 94 were filled with amazing players who didn't care that they were in Canada. Many of whom loved this place a lot. Ya, Toronto had the highest payroll in the league for many of those years, but we're also a top 5 market in North America, so that should be expected. Not only that but after that period we attracted a bunch of really good players (maybe the performance hasn't been great, but still some big names like Clemens, Halladay, Wells, Burnett, Ryan, Hentgen, Delgado - all guys that we either signed or managed to re-sign). Also, look at all the guys the Raptors have attracted, especially since Colangelo entered the fold (Turkoglu even chose to come here because he loved being in a place with a large Turkish community). Ya players leave, but they leave because of a variety of reasons like they would leave any city (like for example, Halladay has stuck it out with this team but he wants to win. He would stay if the team was good enough to compete). Ultimately, I think most athletes just want to win and they'd be willing to go wherever to do it. And really, the only player I can think of that was somewhat dissatisfied with living in Canada was Antonio Davis and that was mostly because he wanted his kids to be in an American school. I mean, Carter who was the biggest star we've had and he left because he disliked Grunwald.

Ultimately, I just think if you put together a winning atmosphere and good people and a good organization and you sell the city in the same way any other team with as great a city as ours would, players will want to play here.

 

[andomano]

Even a "visiting" home team couldn't win in Toronto.

 

[Long Island Mike]

The Jets win-19 to 13 over the Bills in the Rogers Skydome...

Everyone: After this game was completed I could not help but think that if the NFL shifted a prime game - like last Monday night's game between the New England Patriots and New Orleans Saints if it would have attracted a larger crowd instead of having two marginal-at best teams like the Jets and Bills the main NFL event here?

Will the prices be more reasonable at these Toronto Bills games in the future?
The attendance was around 42 thousand-on the low side for an NFL game.
I wonder how Bills fans are reacting after this game and the future ones to be played at the Rogers Skydome. It would also be interesting to find out how many Jets fans made the trip from the NYC area for this game.

Thoughts from LI MIKE