Systemic racism affecting the TTC?

[Northern Light]

Is there any way for the TTC to restore the integrity of its fare collection without charges of systemic racism, the inevitable investigation by the provincial human rights commission, and a Charter case ending up in the Supreme Court? I’d suggest that the answer is no for all practical purposes, and the rational response of members of every visible minority, or at least members of those visible minorities deemed by The Red Star to be victims of society, should ... emphasis on should...be to evade fates and assert racism in the event any TTC employees try to stop them. Perhaps BLM could make itself useful by shutting down Line 1 at rush hour in protest over racist fare inspection. Taking down Pride worked quite well for them, after all. The rational response of TTC management and our elected officials should be to pretend they’re doing something about fare evasion, while actually looking the other way and doing nothing, because who needs the pain? Maybe the TTC could lie about the statistics, or better yet not collect them at all. Diversity our strength.

I don't think the above is a helpful comment. You're capable of much better.

 

[rbt]

The rational response of TTC management and our elected officials should be to pretend they’re doing something about fare evasion, while actually looking the other way and doing nothing, because who needs the pain? Maybe the TTC could lie about the statistics, or better yet not collect them at all. Diversity our strength.

Agreed. Reducing the human component in fare inspections is the path of least resistance but I doubt they'll let the revenue go that easily. Random number generators (1 in 4 passengers gets searched for example) and randomly assigned inspection locations are ways of doing that.

I expect additional electronic inspections will be implemented too such as a subway tap-out requirement and perhaps gates at some transfer points which are currently barrier free (Spadina streetcar & Subway for example). Of course, single-trip presto tickets need to be implemented for this.

 

[TheKingEast]

^Holy fuck. That right there is why Trump was elected.

Trump was elected because he relied on xenophobic, homophobic and racist rhetoric to strike fear in his uneducated, the lowest common denominator and there you go!

As far as the article, seems like many are OK with discrimination as long as it fits whatever narrative they have about said group. Personally of the fare evaders I've seen get written up, majority have been non-black. But I'm not keeping score like some people.

I hate articles like this. You get nothing but people trying to explain away why THIS isn't racism because the stats! The stats! My beliefs! My beliefs!

 

[MisterF]

This is a perfect example of what people mean when they refer to the mainstream media's left wing bias.

In a city where 3 of the 4 major newspapers tend to lean right, (some more than others), it amazes me that anyone still argues that there's a left wing bias in the mainstream media.

In any case, the fact that racism has become a left/right issue is part of the problem.

 

[Neutrino]

Trump was elected because he relied on xenophobic, homophobic and racist rhetoric to strike fear in his uneducated, the lowest common denominator and there you go!

Funny because Trump was handed the election by two time Obama voters in the rust belt. But don't let facts get in the way of the ideological narrative.

I hate articles like this. You get nothing but people trying to explain away why THIS isn't racism because the stats! The stats! My beliefs! My beliefs!

Still waiting for an actual argument. Seems like you're the one doing what you accuse others of doing.

Racism is not a left/right problem. It's an issue of far left equality of outcome identity politics activists vs the rest us in the rational left and right. Thankfully there is a growing movement on the rational, centre left to clean house and push back against the radical identitarians. Massively overblown (and frequently flat out false) claims of pervasive, awful systemic racism when we live in what's probably the most enlightened, egalitarian and least racist society in all of human history are quite unethical.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with aiming for equality of outcome - we hold it as an ideal in some of our most cherished policies (e.g. public healthcare). Just because a society is one of the most enlightened, egalitarian and least racist doesn't mean there is no systemic racism necessarily - and you don't have to agree with some of the more radical interpretations of identity politics to observe that. It does not mean that I agree with the BLM position - but it also does not mean we can simply dismiss everything by labelling it all as identity politics and leaving it at that.

And for all the talk about identity politics, I have to say you surely adopted a lot of that "us vs. them".

AoD

 

[Neutrino]

No, I am in favour of a universalizing, not an us versus them narrative. Which is why it's important to acknowledge that the debate is being hijacked by a small group of vocal and uninformed activists; that the us versus them is in some sense a false dichotomy.

Of course, when it comes to political debate, there is always the risk of increasing polarization and I am keenly aware of that when I approach these issues. Obviously, my own arguments will contribute to this polarization. But it's done only to draw attention to the activist coterie.

Equality of outcome in the political, social and economic realms (as argued by the activist left) is neither possible nor desirable and this is precisely the narrative being pushed in so many places at the current moment.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

No, I am in favour of a universalizing, not an us versus them narrative. Which is why it's important to acknowledge that the debate is being hijacked by a small group of vocal and uninformed activists; that the us versus them is in some sense a false dichotomy.

Of course, when it comes to political debate, there is always the risk of increasing polarization and I am keenly aware of that when I approach these issues. Obviously, my own arguments will contribute to this polarization. But it's done only to draw attention to the activist coterie.

Equality of outcome in the political, social and economic realms (as argued by the activist left) is neither possible nor desirable and this is precisely the narrative being pushed in so many places at the current moment.

That's a bunch of word salad that implied neutrality but really wasn't - it is an attempt to stake out the "rational" and then implying everything else as "irrational" that is highly questionable in my books.

You don't have to agree with sensationalist claims that "TTC is racist!" to agree that a) there needs to be an effective fare management regime and b) perhaps the current way of doing things can be improved.

AoD

 

[Neutrino]

Not addressing a single argument, but sure.

Word salad is the domain of the activist left, not me. I prefer clear and simple language.

Anyway, you can lock this thread because clearly it's going nowhere. Don't say I didn't warn you when the "everything is racist" brigade rolls around.

a) there needs to be an effective fare management regime and b) perhaps the current way of doing things can be improved.

Oh, I agree entirely. My whole point is that such nuance will be missing from sensationalized claims from the activist caste.

 

[gabe]

Trump was elected because he relied on xenophobic, homophobic and racist rhetoric to strike fear in his uneducated, the lowest common denominator and there you go!

Trump was elected by the electoral college, basically. He lost the popular vote by millions, and other people just didn’t give a crap about the importance of voting. Lowest voter turnout in 20 years.

 

[rbt]

You don't have to agree with sensationalist claims that "TTC is racist!" to agree that a) there needs to be an effective fare management regime and b) perhaps the current way of doing things can be improved.

Too many people made noise and TTC decided to do what most agencies have done, they're no longer collecting that information.

So, now we'll never know if it was racism at front-lines (specific officers or groups of officers), management (directing to monitor specific locations), board (through poorly thought out policy), or coincidental (low income persons commit fare fraud more often; happen to include more black than the general population*).

* this in itself is a problem, but not necessarily one with TTC procedures.

 

[TheKingEast]

Funny because Trump was handed the election by two time Obama voters in the rust belt. But don't let facts get in the way of the ideological narrative.



Still waiting for an actual argument. Seems like you're the one doing what you accuse others of doing.

Racism is not a left/right problem. It's an issue of far left equality of outcome identity politics activists vs the rest us in the rational left and right. Thankfully there is a growing movement on the rational, centre left to clean house and push back against the radical identitarians. Massively overblown (and frequently flat out false) claims of pervasive, awful systemic racism when we live in what's probably the most enlightened, egalitarian and least racist society in all of human history are quite unethical.

I have no desire to engage in a debate with you. You’re not worth the effort.

 

[Hopkins123]

Trump was elected by the electoral college, basically. He lost the popular vote by millions, and other people just didn’t give a crap about the importance of voting. Lowest voter turnout in 20 years.

How come anytime an election doesn't produce the results they were expecting or hoping for it's because of "low voter turnout"? The reality of the 2016 elections is that more voters wanted a right-wing winner than a leftist one (the collective Republican, Libertarian and Constitution Party vote outnumbered the Democrats and Greens by over 1.5 million votes).

In a country where 120 million are minors and ergo can't vote, having a turnout of 135 million is very impressive. The "supermajority" rule of Trudeau where only 10 million Canadians bothered to elect his 2015 party pales in comparison.

 

[Neutrino]

I have no desire to engage in a debate with you. You’re not worth the effort.

Making actual arguments is hard. Keep trying, I'm sure you'll get there one day.

 

[ShonTron]

Egad. I cringe whenever a thread like this occurs on Urban Toronto.

Trump was elected by the electoral college, basically. He lost the popular vote by millions, and other people just didn’t give a crap about the importance of voting. Lowest voter turnout in 20 years.

That, and the Democrats weren't fired up by HRC. That's a big reason why Harper won a majority in 2011: the Liberals had little to offer and Ignatieff simply didn't connect. Liberal voters stayed home, those on the right might have voted CPC (Martin/Manley/Morneau Liberals) or those towards the left might have voted NDP. The Liberals came back in 2015 fired up.

A lot of Democrats simply stayed home in 2016.