Switzerland Minarets Laws

[Prometheus The Supremo]

How is that relevant though? Nobody said they were stupid or poor.

i was just stating it because some think of them that way. it wasn't really a response to anybody. it's hard to fight a terrorist that comes from a well to do family in good living conditions, with a good education, money, government support, high motivation and good organizational skills. it's not exactly desperation that's fuelling things like 9/11.

 

[Admiral Beez]

If those blowing themselves up in the Tube were Iraqis or Afghanis it could be understood. But its Pakistanis and Arab immigrants blowing up Londoners. This is what ruins the image of Islam.

In the case of the London bombings, they're not even immigrants, but many were born in the UK. Even their mostly secular parents have been interviewing saying they don't know what happened to their son since he started going to "x" mosque.

 

[kEiThZ]

i was just stating it because some think of them that way. it wasn't really a response to anybody. it's hard to fight a terrorist that comes from a well to do family in good living conditions, with a good education, money, government support, high motivation and good organizational skills. it's not exactly desperation that's fuelling things like 9/11.

And that's what makes this breed of extremism so dangerous. If it was just poverty, we could throw money at the problem.

 

[toraerach]

Please re-read the original question. When exactly in the 21st Century did this occur? We can go back to the last Century, or even back to earlier Centuries if you like, but my point is, in the 21st Century only one religious-based terrorist group seems to be attacking targets across the globe.

The Lord's Resistance Army: Christian terrorist group

Yaakov Teitel: Jewish terrorist

Russian National Unity: Orthodox terrorist group

Khalistan Zindabad Force: Sikh terrorist group

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

In the case of the London bombings, they're not even immigrants, but many were born in the UK. Even their mostly secular parents have been interviewing saying they don't know what happened to their son since he started going to "x" mosque.

sounds like he cashed in his rationality for 72 virgins (or white grapes). apparently the guy that killed theo van gogh had a computer hard drive filled with amputee porn.

 

[kEiThZ]

The Lord's Resistance Army: Christian terrorist group

Yaakov Teitel: Jewish terrorist

Russian National Unity: Orthodox terrorist group

Khalistan Zindabad Force: Sikh terrorist group

With the exception of Yaakov, how many of those groups are sending their members out to attack the citizens of other countries? The LRA is a party in what is a civil war or insurgency. The RNU is an extremist group confined to Russia and the Sikh extremists were solely targeting other Sikhs in what was an internal struggle within the Sikh community or they are attacking Indian interests (which would make it an act of civil war or insurgency).

None of those are the same as Al Qaeda members killing random western citizens in London, Madrid, New York or even Bali.

 

[Admiral Beez]

The Lord's Resistance Army: Christian terrorist group

Yaakov Teitel: Jewish terrorist

Russian National Unity: Orthodox terrorist group

Khalistan Zindabad Force: Sikh terrorist group

Nice try, though I have to give you credit as you must have been racking your mind, determined to find some terrorist group in the 21st Century. However, you've failed to address the original question, what other religious-based terrorist group is attacking people around the globe other than Islamic based terrorists?

Lord's Resistance Army - even your own link shows that they're pretty much isolated to their own country of Uganda.

Yaakov "Jack" Teitel - did not lead a terrorist group, and did not conduct international terrorism, but was a menace in Israel where he lived. Sure he was born in the US, so you could argue he traveled to Israel to conduct "terror", but that's a stretch here I think, since he wasn't a terror group, and targeted other Jews.

Russian National Unity - how can you claim this is an international terrorist organization? It's just a right wing fascist party in Russia. Nasty indeed, but call me when they attack Toronto or New York.

Here's the challenge, find me a religious-based terrorist group that is targeting and attacking Western countries and its citizens throughout the globe in the 21st Century that is not Islamic based?

 

[Second_in_pie]

Here's the challenge, find me a religious-based terrorist group that is targeting and attacking Western countries and its citizens throughout the globe in the 21st Century that is not Islamic based?

Why does it have to be religious based and why does it have to be in the 21st Century? There were plenty of other groups that were in the exact same situation as Al-Quaida is in now, being the "only international terrorist organization" by your definition. The IRA is one example. They were international, were incredibly violent, and there were some times that they were the only terrorist group in the world. So are the Irish evil?

And Al-Quaida represents Islam so much less than the IRA represents the Irish. The IRA was fighting for Irish separatism, while Al-Quaida is fighting for what they see as what Islam preaches.

Again, there are many more Muslims that are western in what they aspire to live like, than extremist Muslims like Al-Quaida. Unfortunately, it seems like you've been totally blinded by the media. I suggest that you read a Qur'an when you have the chance, then tell me that it preaches more hate and inequality than the Bible does.

 

[newuser2k9]

Nice try, though I have to give you credit as you must have been racking your mind, determined to find some terrorist group in the 21st Century. However, you've failed to address the original question, what other religious-based terrorist group is attacking people around the globe other than Islamic based terrorists?

Lord's Resistance Army - even your own link shows that they're pretty much isolated to their own country of Uganda.

Yaakov "Jack" Teitel - did not lead a terrorist group, and did not conduct international terrorism, but was a menace in Israel where he lived. Sure he was born in the US, so you could argue he traveled to Israel to conduct "terror", but that's a stretch here I think, since he wasn't a terror group, and targeted other Jews.

Russian National Unity - how can you claim this is an international terrorist organization? It's just a right wing fascist party in Russia. Nasty indeed, but call me when they attack Toronto or New York.

Here's the challenge, find me a religious-based terrorist group that is targeting and attacking Western countries and its citizens throughout the globe in the 21st Century that is not Islamic based?

Teitel killed Palestinians. Get your facts straight.

We (the Christian 'West') came into the the Middle East over the 20th century, subverted and destroyed their political structures, steal their national resources, weaponize them, and create 'puppet' wars. With the instability, any logical, rational, normal human would leave immediately, and of course some others became terrorists to attack the source of all their trouble. So now we make the lives of the lucky few who got out even harder by punishing them because those terrorists are fighting back? How is that fair? How is that human?

We created the monster that is the current Middle East. We, as the West, need to own up.

 

[ACE]

.

 

[doady]

Christian beliefs are what drives the southern US states to disallow gay marriage, and believe a woman should stand behind their man.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0486358/

The religion is secondary to how strictly it is adhered to. A strict follower of Christianity or Judaism is just as much of a risk.

It not just that they consider homosexuality or adultery as a crime, but it the punishments that they give for these crimes, or any other crime for that matter. All the Islamic states have punishments like canings, stonings, lashings, hangings, and beheadings by scimitar. It is barbaric.

Yes, the attitudes towards gays and women aren't actually that different from Judaism and Christianity, but the difference is that Muslims will always follow their religion strictly, considering that they are still beheading people (including women) with scimitars in this day and age.

 

[toraerach]

Let's have a look at some of the countries which have the highest Islamic populations in the world to see whether or not your claim is correct.

Pakistan
Prior to 2004, blasphemy of the Quran was punishable by life imprisonment or death. Since that date, the law has not been changed but it is enacted with more 'moderate' outcomes (i.e.: lashings).

Bangladesh
The killing of citizens by government and law-enforcement officials is commonplace. Religious persecution is also commonplace with several hundred thousand Buddhists, Hindus and Christians leaving the country within the past decade.

Nigeria
Homosexuality is illegal under Nigerian Federal law with offenders being subject to lashings or stonings. Children who are accused of witchcraft are burned alive.

Egypt
Freedom of the Press is poor at best with criticism of the President resulting in fines and/or imprisionment. Prior to 1999, government regulations required all non-Muslims to obtain presidential decrees before building or repairing a place of worship. Obtaining permits for non-Muslims is still difficult. Members of the Bahá'í faith are not permitted to have an identity card. They are not allowed to own property, attend university, vote, obtain a passport or obtain birth, marriage or death certificates. They can, however, obtain these documents if they do not identify their religion as Bahá'í on official documents.

Iran
Canadian journalist Zahra Kazemi.

Sudan
Human rights in Sudan can best be summed-up in one word: 'Darfur'.

Morocco
It is illegal for Muslims to renounce Islam.

Yemen
There is no minimum age for marriage in Yemen. Enrolment in schools by females is one of the lowest rated in the world as these 'child' brides are denied access to higher education. Conversion from Islam is prohibited. Homosexuality in Yemen is punishable by death.

Syria
17,000 political activists have 'disappeared' within the past four decades. Syrian-born Kurds are denied citizenship and are often discriminated against and treated as second class citizens. The penal code allows a judge to suspend punishment for a rapist if the rapist chooses to marry his victim. Courts are usually very lenient for 'honour killings'. Women require the permission of their husbands to travel abroad.

Niger
Despite outlawing slavery in 2003, 8% of the population of Niger are slaves.

Somalia
There are no laws against spousal rape. High incidences of child abuse, child labour and human trafficking. The freedoms of speech, press, assembly, association, religion, and movement are all restricted.

What does any of this have to do with law-abiding Swiss citizens?

Turkey currently has over 9,000 cases pending before the European Court of Human Rights for violations of basic human rights. Such violations have included imprisoning a woman for speaking Kurdish; the disappearance and/or killing of nearly 3,000 people; an increase in the number of cases of torture; deaths of individuals while in custody; the killing of individuals who exercised their right to freedom of assembly, etc.

Turkey has a lot of problems, but they do allow churches and synagoges to be built. Nationalism, not Islamic fundamentalism, causes most of Turkey's problems.

Like I said, 'they deny basic human rights to others within their own country but then demand more rights for themselves in their adopted country or country of convenience.'

Believe it or not, some Swiss Muslims were born in Switzerland. A good chunk of the others did not come from the countries you listed above, but from Albania, Bosnia, and other fairly pluralistic societies with secular governments. Regardless, Switzerland is their country now; the actions of other Muslims in other countries really shouldn't factor into which rights they deserve and which they don't.

 

[urbanfan89]

Anyway, I don't think its concerns over terrorism that drove the Swiss to ban minarets. We have to wonder how muslims are integrating in Switzerland. Because if they were successful, we would not have seen this kind of vote.

The question is not about whether they are integrating into Swiss society. They question is about basic rights. And the question about whether they brought this vote on themselves is odious. Is it the Jews's fault that they did not integrate into mainstream German society in the early 20th century and therefore brought upon the election of the Nazis?

Anyway, if the vote is not overturned the community should build new mosques and minarets which look like local buildings. China has hosted millions of Muslims for over a thousand years, and the community (generally) works well. Their mosques are built to look exactly like traditional pagodas and temples. In the west, there would be more tolerance if mosques were built to resemble local buildings.

Here's a video as an example of a mosque is China: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZsC59_iyrw

 

[newuser2k9]

The question is not about whether they are integrating into Swiss society. They question is about basic rights. And the question about whether they brought this vote on themselves is odious. Is it the Jews's fault that they did not integrate into mainstream German society in the early 20th century and therefore brought upon the election of the Nazis?

Anyway, if the vote is not overturned the community should build new mosques and minarets which look like local buildings. China has hosted millions of Muslims for over a thousand years, and the community (generally) works well. Their mosques are built to look exactly like traditional pagodas and temples. In the west, there would be more tolerance if mosques were built to resemble local buildings.

Here's a video as an example of a mosque is China: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZsC59_iyrw

And nothing in China is forcing them to build it that way. A sad day when Switzerland falls behind China.

 

[Second_in_pie]

Teitel killed Palestinians. Get your facts straight.

We (the Christian 'West') came into the the Middle East over the 20th century, subverted and destroyed their political structures, steal their national resources, weaponize them, and create 'puppet' wars. With the instability, any logical, rational, normal human would leave immediately, and of course some others became terrorists to attack the source of all their trouble. So now we make the lives of the lucky few who got out even harder by punishing them because those terrorists are fighting back? How is that fair? How is that human?

We created the monster that is the current Middle East. We, as the West, need to own up.

This. Alllll this.