Subway line interlining and splitting

[M II A II R II K]

Many cities do these, I understand that interlining can cause problems since if there's a breakdown then more lines are affected, unless they can allow for trains on one line to start and finish at a station on it's own line to cut down on that.

But subway splitting seems to have merit to it, since it allows for the same subway line to cover more area. London does this for instance and I suppose one would have to watch a train go by to wait for the right train if their trip is long enough. IE. Sheppard and Spadina Line share the track to VCC but the Sheppard Line would have trains ready to go at Downsview.

I asked why didn't Toronto do this, then it was suggested that people would get confused, but I think that's silly, since how hard can that be.

Off the wall examples off the top of my head could have had part of the Danforth line branch off to go to or around Union Station or Queen St.

And/Or the Danforth line continue east in a straight line passed Victoria Park station to go directly to Kingston Road and up to the closest GO station.

In the west the Bloor line could branch off passed High Park and go down to the Queensway and terminate at Sherway Gardens and that line can be mostly outside, or perhaps down to the Lakeshore. Either way development in that area could look entirely different if it were done as far back as the 1970s.

And so forth.

 

[Second_in_pie]

The only one that I think would work actually is interlining the Shepaprd Line with Spadina through Downsview, Sheppard West, Finch West and York University. If the Jane LRT actually gets built, probably to Steeles West station as well. I don't think interlining B-D and YUS is a good idea, because they both extend past the area they would interline with, and because there is still a lot of demand outside the area that would be interlined. But that said, I definitely think that Sheppard should be interlined with the Spadina Extension.

 

[prosperegal]

The only one that I think would work actually is interlining the Shepaprd Line with Spadina through Downsview, Sheppard West, Finch West and York University. If the Jane LRT actually gets built, probably to Steeles West station as well. I don't think interlining B-D and YUS is a good idea, because they both extend past the area they would interline with, and because there is still a lot of demand outside the area that would be interlined. But that said, I definitely think that Sheppard should be interlined with the Spadina Extension.

I think it's a good idea too...but how many people want this? And will it only go up to York or Steeles West? Or should it go up to the end of the line?

 

[CodeMonkey]

I don't think alot of would care if a interline would happen. The TTC even seems to hint that is going to happen sooner or later, the 'Next Train' signs are still in place and most of them are updated to show 'Downsview' on the YUS line.

 

[Second_in_pie]

I think it's a good idea too...but how many people want this? And will it only go up to York or Steeles West? Or should it go up to the end of the line?

I think that around York U is a pretty logical terminus, but past that gets kind of sketchy (seriously, the current site of VCC is totally desolate right now.) You could short-turn every other Spadina train at Downsview, so that way York U would end up having high train service from all directions, but past York U where the service isn't needed as much there would be less service. Extending Sheppard up the Spadina Extension through York University would certainly give it a lot of connections, and when the Finch West LRT and/or any Hydro Corridor route gets built, it would make Sheppard a lot more effective and minimize transfers.
If VCC is actually built in it's full glory, then I guess extending Sheppard to VCC might actually make sense. I myself would prefer a Highway 7 subway though

Of course, this is all totally speculative because currently the chances of any other subway extensions being built are hovering at the number just before zero. Maybe York could convince the City to build a Sheppard West extension by demanding that it interlines with Spadina to VCC? Hey, that could actually work! I should bring this up with my local representative immediately!

 

[M II A II R II K]

But aside from interlining, back in the past when subways were built pretty quickly there was no move to branch out the lines to cover additional areas.

There was once the flying U for instance, well why not have both at the same time, even if that flying U was a separate line altogether.

 

[doady]

I don't think there is enough capacity for interlining. The subways are crowded enough as is. The current routes are the most efficient way.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

I don't think alot of would care if a interline would happen. The TTC even seems to hint that is going to happen sooner or later, the 'Next Train' signs are still in place and most of them are updated to show 'Downsview' on the YUS line.

I think that's for the future York extension as IIRC 2 out of every 3 trains will be short turned at Downsview (or was that Steeles West?).

 

[SGHA504]

The Subway was originally interlined, or at least it was during the 60's, from my understanding. What was the reason that practise was stopped? It couldn't have been something as simple as "people were confused", was it?

 

[prosperegal]

The Subway was originally interlined, or at least it was during the 60's, from my understanding. What was the reason that practise was stopped? It couldn't have been something as simple as "people were confused", was it?

From what I heard, that was EXACTLY why they got rid of it...after six months.

 

[SGHA504]

From what I heard, that was EXACTLY why they got rid of it...after six months.

Wow, you'd like proper signage and a communications campaign could overcome that minor obstacle...

 

[Steveorama]

From what I heard, that was EXACTLY why they got rid of it...after six months.

There was a little more to it than that.
For instance, if you were waiting for an eastbound train at Bay, you stood on the stairs between the two levels and waited to see which train came first...then hurried up or down the stairs to grab your train. That made for some chaotic stairwells in the afternoon rush hour!
To be fair, TTC management HATED the interlining and did not work too hard to make it work. They were happy to pull the plug on that experiment in September of 1966.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

There was a little more to it than that.
For instance, if you were waiting for an eastbound train at Bay, you stood on the stairs between the two levels and waited to see which train came first...then hurried up or down the stairs to grab your train. That made for some chaotic stairwells in the afternoon rush hour!
To be fair, TTC management HATED the interlining and did not work too hard to make it work. They were happy to pull the plug on that experiment in September of 1966.

Read Transit Toronto's piece on the interlining debacle. I believe there were signs at both stations directing passengers to where the next train would be arriving from (upper or lower level). That said there were many other ways to do the interlining and the city and the TTC just messed it up. They could have quad lined both stations rather than a double decker arrangement so that on would, ideally, have access to both lines. Or they could have twisted the stations so that both east bound lines were on one level while westbound and DT bound trains were on the other.

 

[LowerBay]

We did interline in 1966 for six months. Politics and cost killed it.

The problem was the TTC's service pattern that required strict alternation of destinations. This required a scheduling system whereby trains would constantly change routes, so, a crosstown train would become a downtown on its next run, and so forth.

The other problem was the TTC's attempt to force evenly spaced headways and train sequencing through the wye in order to preserve all those route swaps -- so that the crews wound up in the right place.

Interestingly, in the 80s, the IPHC system solved the uneven arrival time problem at the wye, but by then, we had shot ourselves in the foot with the Spadina extension using up all the wye track time.

Bay and St. George had "next train" signs to guide you to the right platform. They didn't say "next train", but the directional sign had arrows that would light up. Often trains were held on those platforms before the ATDs would release them, so there was no rush up and down the stairs.

 

[CodeMonkey]

How they interlined Bay station was bad idea from the start. Having two eastbound tracks at the same station was just dumb. They could have just had one platform with one track coming from the south or west sharing the eastbound track and have the westbound track going south or continuing west.