Steeles RT

[afransen]

There is no where near the traffic that travels between region to region which is easily accessible by transit which is why drivers drive. But really how many people live directly at square one who need to have an express lane dedicated to them to get them to Scarborough town centre or Vaughan centre more quickly. If the bus starts to randomly get off at ramps along the way in order to pick up people or drop people off that kills the speed of the service. I just don’t think some trips will ever be able to be effectively covered by transit.

You want to make the far left lane a toll lane. Sure. I can get on board with that. Although that’s going to open another can of worms. No traffic for the rich.

If this is the case, why bother with HOV lanes? When you allow 2 passenger vehicles to use them, they are just as congested as general purpose lanes and offer no travel time benefit to anyone.

Realistically speaking, rail transit will never be offer competitive travel times point to point of regional express bus on a decongested highway network. Having a highway network that regularly operates at <40kph is an absurd waste of infrastructure.

 

[sixrings]

One would cost tens of billions, the other would cost some millions for paint and signs.

Except the cars lose a full lane. The way it’s set up your busses get to drive faster but so do green cars and hov cars. I don’t know what the problem is.

 

[sixrings]

If this is the case, why bother with HOV lanes? When you allow 2 passenger vehicles to use them, they are just as congested as general purpose lanes and offer no travel time benefit to anyone.

Realistically speaking, rail transit will never be offer competitive travel times point to point of regional express bus on a decongested highway network. Having a highway network that regularly operates at <40kph is an absurd waste of infrastructure.

I don’t believe this to be true at all. Every time I go down the 403 or up the 410 with people in the car during rush hour I am going noticeably faster than in the single occupant lanes. I also know people who have specifically bought green vehicles, not to save gas, not to save the environment, but for access of the hov lanes. They too would beg to differ with your statement. The lane might be the same as the other lanes regularly. But during rush hour there is a night and day difference between the lanes. Rush hour is the times that matter to people.

 

[afransen]

I don’t believe this to be true at all. Every time I go down the 403 or up the 410 with people in the car during rush hour I am going noticeably faster than in the single occupant lanes. I also know people who have specifically bought green vehicles, not to save gas, not to save the environment, but for access of the hov lanes. They too would beg to differ with your statement. The lane might be the same as the other lanes regularly. But during rush hour there is a night and day difference between the lanes. Rush hour is the times that matter to people.

EVs won't be permitted in HOV lanes for long, as they become popular. Otherwise it becomes a defacto general purpose lane. The problem with HOV lanes as designed is that vehicles slow to the speed of the general purpose lanes to merge off. If the HOV lane is near capacity, this slows the entire HOV lane. This is somewhat addressed by the design on the 400. Regardless, if the general purpose lanes are moving slowly, the HOV lanes are not moving at a free flowing speed near the speed limit.

 

[sixrings]

EVs won't be permitted in HOV lanes for long, as they become popular. Otherwise it becomes a defacto general purpose lane. The problem with HOV lanes as designed is that vehicles slow to the speed of the general purpose lanes to merge off. If the HOV lane is near capacity, this slows the entire HOV lane. This is somewhat addressed by the design on the 400. Regardless, if the general purpose lanes are moving slowly, the HOV lanes are not moving at a free flowing speed near the speed limit.

The hov lanes may not be perfect. But they are a significant improvement if you qualify to drive in them. Why are you letting perfect be the enemy of the good.

 

[Undead]

One would cost tens of billions, the other would cost some millions for paint and signs.

That's not my point. My point is it's unlikely to change mode shift, but tons of people will sure notice empty HOV lanes with infrequent buses.

 

[anb]

If any form of a Steeles RT becomes a thing, the main priority should be at linking Bramalea-Pioneer Village-Miliken Stations first and then any extensions East/West of those points. Yeah it looks a little too parallel to what the full Queen-Hwy 7 BRT will be and the 407 transitway will be right next to it for most of its run but Steeles is a corridor that can more than handle demand on its own without relying on too much support from other transfers.

 

[afransen]

That's not my point. My point is it's unlikely to change mode shift, but tons of people will sure notice empty HOV lanes with infrequent buses.

Maybe we can compromise and just eliminate the green vehicle exemption and allow vehicles with 3+ persons to use the HOV lanes. Maybe ratchet up to 4+ if still too congested for buses.

 

[Wm Perkins Bull]

I'd be interested to see how well it works over the medium term, with typical levels of enforcement. I am skeptical. I see people weaving in and out of HOV lanes all the time on the highway.

On Steeles in Brampton, the roads are sufficiently congested that the cops would prefer cruising down the bus lanes where possible. The prospect of a police cruiser bearing down on you in a marked bus lane is enough to discourage a lot of people.

I personally think HOV lanes are utterly pointless. Make them bus-only lanes? Absolutely. If we are too stupid to toll highways sufficiently that GO buses are a viable part of the regional transit network (like they are on the 407), then provide dedicated bus lanes on major highways.

HOV lanes are indeed practically pointless, on very congested roads, the capacity gain from HOV lanes is so marginal, the increased capacity is almost immediately consumed with additional traffic.

It's kind of a chicken or the egg problem, no? GO buses would become quite a lot more popular if they were actually a fast way to move around the region, particularly at peak.

A vehicle lane can move about 1800 cars (people) per hour. That's equivalent to 22 GO double deckers per hour (81 passenger). The lane wouldn't just be for GO, but also municipal transit, or private buses. If we're really worried about losing some lane capacity, it could be dynamically tolled as a super premium HOT lane. $5/km anyone?

If you put bus lanes on the 401, this would allow GO to add a significant amount of bus service utilizing the 401, and within a couple years could quickly surpass the 22 double deckers per hour.

It doesn't strike we could attract enough people to regional GO busses to make it worthwhile losing the highway capacity. Then there's also the optics: empty HOV lanes with occasional buses which turns people off transit improvements. I'd rather we look at regional rail possibilities in highway ROWs.

Being stuck in traffic and watching a dozen green GO buses fly past you on your way to work can help people consider whether the GO bus might be faster. Additionally, the TTC would likely capitalize on bus lanes to support long distance travel within Toronto

If any form of a Steeles RT becomes a thing, the main priority should be at linking Bramalea-Pioneer Village-Miliken Stations first and then any extensions East/West of those points. Yeah it looks a little too parallel to what the full Queen-Hwy 7 BRT will be and the 407 transitway will be right next to it for most of its run but Steeles is a corridor that can more than handle demand on its own without relying on too much support from other transfers.

No, there is not an immediate need for Bramalea to Pioneer Village, there is however one for Sheridan College to Humber College, and Pioneer Village to Miliken Station. The section between Humber College and Pioneer Village should be filled in later, and it connecting two Higher Order Transit lines will help build the case for it.

 

[Undead]

Being stuck in traffic and watching a dozen green GO buses fly past you on your way to work can help people consider whether the GO bus might be faster. Additionally, the TTC would likely capitalize on bus lanes to support long distance travel within Toronto

That would be great but I don't see it happening. It's much more likely people will get pissed after their already crap 401 commute gets even worse for nothing.

 

[sixrings]

That would be great but I don't see it happening. It's much more likely people will get pissed after their already crap 401 commute gets even worse for nothing.

Pretty sure that those that proposed the line would be immediately voted out at the next election by any candidate promising to get rid of them.