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Star: TTC eyes bus stop smoking ban

Alcohol does far more damage than good; it's sold by the government. What's your point?


You do realise that the fumes from vehicles are far, far, far more dangerous and wide-spread than tobacco smoke.


These sorts of provisions aren't enforceable anyway so arguing about them is almost pointless.
 
Allowing convenience stores to sell beer, for example, would go a long way to help balance off a shrinking customer base.
And also save on greenhouse gases; while I currently always drive to get beer, I'd walk to the convenience store.
 
It's more so an anti-douchebag law. We are all educated enough to know that cigarettes are harmful, and no benefit comes from smoking (except for corporate profit and taxes).

Please, keep your cancer to yourself.

Anti-douchebag law? Grow up.
 
Anti-douchebag law? Grow up.
Seems a fair enough comment; I'm subjected to second hand smoke in public on almost a daily basis - and not once have I ever had the person walking in front of me; standing on a corner, smoking at a subway station EVER ask around and see if anyone is bothered by their smoking.
 
Isn't that like saying smoking creates jobs in the health care sector? Come on.

No it's not. In healthcare, people get sick all the time. The baby boomers are aging and we have a shortage of doctors and nurses. It's best to free them up from tobacco-related sicknesses. Do you know what it's like to run a convenience store? It's twelve+ hours of work a day seven days a week earning pennies on the hour. Once you take away tobacco sales (the largest source of income for convenience stores), how do you expect them to survive off of lottery tickets and junk food? They won't. They can't while staying competitve with grocery stores and vending machines.

I saw a problem with banning the sale of cigarettes - it would hurt people economically and destroy an entire business. I proposed a way to avoid that (selling beer in convenience stores to make up for the loss). I'm trying to be constructive here. Even without a ban, the decreased amount of smokers is really hurting convenience store operators. That's why there was such an outcry last year when the government of Ontario told them to use their own money to cover up their cigarettes without providing them an alternative source of income. This isn't even getting into all the people who are hurting in the tobacco farming industry who have also received nothing from the government in order to help them transition to another crop. I have my own proposal to help them, but that's a whole other can of worms that I don't want to open up here.

I'm not saying don't try and decrease the amount of people smoking. I'm saying that you need to look at the bigger picture and help those who rely on tobacco sales to transition to a smoke-free world. I see a problem and I propose a solution.

Ban smoking near bus stops - I'm fine with that. I'm against a sidewalk ban in general though, at least for the foreseeable future. When you go out in public you're always taking the risk that someone near you is going to do something you don't like. If you don't like smoking, you can either ask the smoker to please stop, try to ignore it, or go somewhere else. I'd rather see the money that would be needed to enforce a ban go to prevention/rehabilitation programs and things like cancer research. Get smokers off the streets by reducing and not hiding the problem.
 
Seems a fair enough comment; I'm subjected to second hand smoke in public on almost a daily basis - and not once have I ever had the person walking in front of me; standing on a corner, smoking at a subway station EVER ask around and see if anyone is bothered by their smoking.

Seriously, a bit of second hand smoke is at worst annoying. It will not kill or harm you. While there are many reasons to abhor smoking, I cannot stand the moral posturing that the anti-smoking movement has taken. While smoking is a silly habit, only sustained exposure to second hand smoke is dangerous, it is not an immoral act to smoke a cigarette outdoors near someone who happens to not like it. Those who do this are not bad people, nor are they douchebags, so cut it with the childish name calling, you're not any better than these people.
 
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You're subjected to that? And no one asks if it bothers you? You poor thing; Let's call in the human rights commission.

Seriously, a bit of second hand smoke is at worst annoying. It will not kill or harm you. No it won't. Why should anyone care if it bothers you? Lots of people do lots of things that bother me, and I would love it if they gave a rats ass, but I don't actually expect them to. This anti-smoking hysteria is getting out of hand. While there are many reasons to abhor smoking, I cannot stand the moral posturing that the anti-smoking movement has taken. While smoking is a silly habit, only sustained exposure to second hand smoke is dangerous, it is not an immoral act to smoke a cigarette outdoors near someone who happens to not like it. Those who do this are not bad people, nor are they douchebags, so cut it with the childish name calling, you're not any better than these people. Grow up.


Ten points :)
 
shoot, you copied me before i took out the more visceral comments. I'll stand by my edit, though.
 
You're subjected to that? And no one asks if it bothers you? You poor thing; Let's call in the human rights commission.
What's your problem? Smoke in public has to be one of the most vile things I can imagine!

Seriously, a bit of second hand smoke is at worst annoying. It will not kill or harm you.
I never once said it would harm or kill me. It is very annoying though! And I think that is enough to refer to someone who is rude going to puff away somewhere with a lot of non-smokers around as a douchebag! And clearly I'm not the only one hear that thinks that!

What do smokers think goes through the mind of virtually everyone that passes them on the street?

Perhaps name calling is childish - but on a scale of 1 to 10 of socially unacceptable behaviour, where 10 is unacceptable, name-calling might be a 5, while smoking where someone else can smell is a 9.

Why should anyone care if it bothers you? Lots of people do lots of things that bother me, and I would love it if they gave a rats ass, but I don't actually expect them to.
What on earth is your problem? Didn't you get the message? Smoking is socially unacceptable! Did you do a reverse-life-on-mars or something?

This anti-smoking hysteria is getting out of hand. While there are many reasons to abhor smoking, I cannot stand the moral posturing that the anti-smoking movement has taken. While smoking is a silly habit, only sustained exposure to second hand smoke is dangerous, it is not an immoral act to smoke a cigarette outdoors near someone who happens to not like it.
Who cares if it is dangerous? The smell alone is vile. Which is why I have banned smokers from entering my office until they've had a chance to air out a bit. It's the most seriously disgusting smell imaginable. I just can't believe that people let themselves smell so horrific.

Those who do this are not bad people, nor are they douchebags, so cut it with the childish name calling, you're not any better than these people.
Well at least I smell better.

Speaking of childish!
 
Mass Hysteria!!! Banning smoking indoors makes sense, banning smoking out of doors is pseudoscience and social engineering (no surprise it would be popular with some here)

From this month's Advocate:

[...] Michael D. Shaw, an environmental scientist (not a tobacco lobbyist), says that most anti-smoking activists “far too readily exaggerate the dangers.” The fact is most of the studies done regarding the dangers of second-hand smoke used non-smokers who were enclosed in claustrophobic situations with chain-smokers. Even then, some of the studies found no effects, but it’s been enough in recent years to launch a movement to ban smoking. For instance, in Calabasas, Calif., smoking has been banned everywhere outdoors where a person could get within 20 feet of a smoker. Uh, wouldn’t that be ANYWHERE? This ban, an outdoor ban, in the most populated state in the Union with over 36 million people, is outrageous.

Some claim that they are allergic to environmental tobacco smoke (ETS), but that’s a fallacy. According to Shaw, “Based on the traditional definition of an allergen being an agent that promotes an immunological response, ETS fails that test, and so far, at least, can only be classified as an irritant.” So, people are “sensitive” to ETS. But who isn’t “sensitive” to smoke? Irritation is no reason to ban it, but avoid it; perhaps a move of the kiosks to the outside ring of the college, rather than the spine where more students walk, is the best answer.

To give examples as to how out of control the “facts” are getting, Shaw cited a study regarding the Center for Disease Control’s claim that ETS could explain the increase in Asthma since 1995. As asthma numbers were increasing though, the number of smokers was actually decreasing.

Activist Stanton Glantz, who was interviewed by ABC News’ John Stossel, had an even more outrageous claim. He told Stossel 20 to 30 minutes of exposure to second-hand smoke puts a person in serious risk of having a deadly heart attack. This “fact” directly contradicts Dr. Michael Seigel, a leading activist for banning smoking in restaurants and workplaces, who says his movement is distorting the real facts.

The biggest study on this topic, according to Shaw, covered 39 years, 118,094 adults, and a focus on 35,561 people who never smoked but lived with a spouse with known smoking habits, came to the following conclusion: “The results do not support a causal relation between environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality, although they do not rule out a small effect. The association between exposure to environmental tobacco smoke and coronary heart disease and lung cancer may be considerably weaker than generally believed.”

The New England Journal of Medicine, published in 1975 when smoking was rampant in bars and other public places, concluded that the concentration of ETS contaminants was equal to the effects of smoking 0.004 cigarettes per hour. This basically means that a person would have to hang out in a particular bar with this average for about 10-and-a-half days straight to match the effects of one cigarette. Considering that each pack contains 20 cigarettes, a person would have to log 5,000 straight hours – or almost two-thirds of a year – in a bar to suck down that whole pack.

The point of my argument is not to support smoking at all. Knowing lobbyists as I do, it is entirely possible that these journals and studies were done with funding from known industry supporters, or even the industry itself. Far be it from me to defend criminals, but at some point, this superlative fraud being tossed around as “fact” must be stifled.
 
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TTC should focus on station safety and not smoking at bus stops because it annoys some people. I wonder how those people would feel if one of their kids was pushed onto the subway tracks or raped or attacked. I think it's time TTC steps up it's security in all it's station before it gets any worse.
 
TTC should worry about more important things...

like Security...

Its becoming a major issue...
 
nfitz, I'm surprised to hear people feel so strongly against a thing which is only an bother to them. Also, I took out a lot of those comments you quoted, as i realized they weren't becoming of proper argument.

As for smoking being socially unacceptable, I disagree. There's still a seizable portion of the population which smokes, and it's largely accepted many places, sold on every street corner, and fully legal to do in most areas. It's less acceptable than it was, certainly, but banning it from bus stops is just another example of people getting on a high-horse when it won't change a thing.

If someones smoke is bothering you, ask them to put it out. If they tell you to get bent, then they're being a jerk. If they move away, what else do you want? And if they put it out then I think they're being very accommodating. Don't expect them to do things they're not obligated to do without you asking.
 

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