Star: Toronto on the verge of bankruptcy

[Admiral Beez]

Relative to other municipalities in the region, the residential rate tend to be quite a bit lower....

But it's the total paid, not the rate that's important, since that's the coin you've got to pay.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

our property taxes go to toronto schools directly right?

i once saw somewhere that $200 million per year is wasted on duplucate services because of our public & seperate school systems.

why not merge them into a total public system?

i understand the the province only has the authority to do this.

 

[EnviroTO]

But it isn't the total paid. When you buy anything you pay a percentage tax on the value. Someone in Toronto can sell that property and take that money and buy much more somewhere else, but someone somewhere else cannot sell their property and buy anything significant in Toronto. The cost of living is higher in Toronto. It is even higher in the Bridal Path, but lower in Northern Etobicoke. The city of Toronto has higher costs... higher salaries, higher land purchasing costs, etc.

 

[dowlingm]

Prometheus - unfortunately only the Dippers favour reversing the decision to fund the Catholic School Boards. The Liberals will never do it as they depend on votes from ethnic groups among whom are some mostly Catholic ones. The Tories won't because it was Bill Davis who did it and John Tory was his boy back when he did it. The Tories also still support tax credits for non-catholic separate schools, which Ernie Eves tried to do. The City of Toronto has no control over the school boards at all, which is why we elected school trustees separately.

There was one lone gun Liberal MPP who brought in a bill recently on this - only six Liberals turned up and at least one Liberal sent emails crowing about its demise.

Hydrogen - because of the constitutional provisions which make provinces responsible for cities, the Provinces have historically resisted the Feds directly dealing with cities. If Alberta had a PST that is where the mayors should be going for their cut but in order to maintain a united front they have to ask for GST.

 

[AndreaPalladio]

Actually, it's the Constitution that created the separate schools. To change it you'd need the agreement of the Ontario legislature and the Canadian parliament.

 

[ShonTron]

That is true. There is also precedent - Quebec had a provision allowing for a public Protestant school system. This was later abolished in favour of a language-based school system.

I for one would welcome a single English school system.

 

[AndreaPalladio]

Moi aussi. I'm opposed to government funding for religion.

 

[unimaginative2]

Newfoundland also amended the constitution a couple of years ago to change from their Catholic and Protestant school systems to a secular model.

 

[dowlingm]

AndreaPalladio - funding is guaranteed up to grade 10 under section 93 of the 1867 Act - Davis extended it to grade 13.

The entire discriminatory protection of one religion can be repealed in Ontario just as the Constitution Amendment, 1997 repealed subsections 1-4 in Quebec in order to facilitate linguistic school boards through Bill 109. While we have French school boards now, an argument for rationalisation should be as applicable to Ontario as it was in Quebec.

 

[AndreaPalladio]

Yes, that how I said such an amendment would have to work. Not a snowball's chance it will ever happen though.

 

[Hydrogen]

Hydrogen - because of the constitutional provisions which make provinces responsible for cities, the Provinces have historically resisted the Feds directly dealing with cities. If Alberta had a PST that is where the mayors should be going for their cut but in order to maintain a united front they have to ask for GST.

Okay, I am more than well aware of the constitutional provisions concerning cities and the feds. At the same time there is nothing that actually prevents the federal government in making investments in cities. Most provincial governments would not be stupid enough to resist a couple of billion dollars being invested in infrastructure.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

i guess catholicism is the defacto state religion. even the united nations is on our ass for this discriminatory prefrence of funding. if anyone creates a serious movement to have a total secular school system, they'll be crying "bloody communism".

it's not fair for the government to pay for children to be indoctrinated into a religion they did not choose but it's also not fair that tax dollars are wasted in duplication & exclusion of other religions.


imagine the costs if all the major religions had their own school systems!


i think this is one of the reasons why our education system is suffering.

 

[Hydrogen]

Help us, Richard Dawkins!

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

heck, even james randi would do.

 

[CDL.TO]

Okay, I am more than well aware of the constitutional provisions concerning cities and the feds. At the same time there is nothing that actually prevents the federal government in making investments in cities. Most provincial governments would not be stupid enough to resist a couple of billion dollars being invested in infrastructure.

Well, that's the thing. The feds can't hand money directly to the cities, they have to hand it to the provinces and ask them if they would kindly pass it on. It's simple when you're working project-by-project to control where they money ends up (imagine the stink if they cut a cheque for the Spadina extension which ended up being tossed into general revenues), but if a general urban infrastructure funding program was created they would just have to hand the cheque over to the provinces and hope that it gets spent where intended.

At least, that's how my politics prof explained it to me.