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Star: Shopping wars: 'Screw it, I need some bags'

We used to get all paper bags at Zehrs, but they stopped providing them at ours. Only plastic or reusables. Stinks, because we used to use the paper ones for garbage instead of plastic.
 
billonlogan said:
Some advice if you want to save the 5 cents per bag. I have not had to pay for a single bag. I tell the cashier I need do many bags and I dont want to pay for them. If she refuses, I will leave the groceries at the cash and walk out. They ususally comply. Works every time.
Click to expand...

Wow, not only are you cheap, but a complete douche.

:D
 
There is a very solid argument that paper bags are worse than the environment than plastic bags.

  • Paper bags generate 70% more air and 50 times more water pollutants than plastic bags
  • Paper bags use 4 times as much energy to construct compared to a plastic bag
  • Paper bags use 84 times as much energy to recycle compared to a plastic bag

A 1990 study of the full life cycle of paper and plastic bags concluded that "Through a lifecycle energy analysis, plastic is the better bag. At current recycling rates two plastic bags use less energy and produce less solid, atmospheric, and waterborne waste than a single paper bag. Moreover future improvements only increase preference in plastic bags."

Plastic bags certainly have their problems (most of which can be avoided by ensuring that bags are recycled), but paper bags are clearly not the solution.
 
I'm tired of this debate. It comes down to a classic case of the convenience of individuals versus the good of society as a whole. Sure it's convenient to carry your goods out of a store in a plastic bag every time you buy something, but that 20 or 30 seconds of convenience means hundreds of years in a landfill, oceans and trees clogged with plastic, dead animals, and wasted petroleum in a world of high oil prices. Yes, some plastic bags are reused but the vast majority are not, despite the personal habits some claim to have.

I've hardly used any plastic bags for 2 or 3 years now, ever since they started selling those reusable totes for $2 at grocery stores. All the reusable bags I've purchased in that time are still in perfectly good shape despite near daily use. They are actually a lot easier to carry than plastic bags, because they are larger, squarer, and have better handles. When you take double-bagging into account, I'd say that the average tote carries a lot more than 2 plastic bags worth of groceries; maybe even 3 or 4 times, if you pack them carefully.

A small percentage of those around me also seemed to make the change voluntarily -- perhaps 20 percent -- but most did not. So evidently, a measure such as this was needed. We had a chance to do this voluntarily and it didn't work. Those who argue that we are being "coerced" or "forced" to make the change are missing the point: if you haven't made the change already, then you obviously weren't going to make the change voluntarily anyway. Just because you've decided that you don't care about the greater issue doesn't mean the rest of us should have to be plagued with your plastic bags.

Receiving a plastic bag is a service. If you want a service, you pay for it, just as you would expect to pay for grocery delivery, or for a cab, or to send a letter through the mail. If you don't want the service, you don't have to pay for it. Simple. Besides, 5 cents for the occasional plastic bag when you forget your reusable one hardly seems like a punitive fee in our society.

It always amazes me how much people protest every tiny change. If the knee-jerk status quo defenders always got their way we'd still be driving cars with no seatbelts or airbags, killing ourselves with leaded gasoline, breathing second hand smoke inside elevators and classrooms, dumping raw sewage into lakes and rivers, drinking and driving with impunity, etc. Some people need to stop acting like spoiled 2-year-olds and look at the bigger picture. If you want to protest something, there are thousands of more important issues out there.
 
Last edited:
CDL.TO said:
There is a very solid argument that paper bags are worse than the environment than plastic bags.

  • Paper bags generate 70% more air and 50 times more water pollutants than plastic bags
  • Paper bags use 4 times as much energy to construct compared to a plastic bag
  • Paper bags use 84 times as much energy to recycle compared to a plastic bag

A 1990 study of the full life cycle of paper and plastic bags concluded that "Through a lifecycle energy analysis, plastic is the better bag. At current recycling rates two plastic bags use less energy and produce less solid, atmospheric, and waterborne waste than a single paper bag. Moreover future improvements only increase preference in plastic bags."

Plastic bags certainly have their problems (most of which can be avoided by ensuring that bags are recycled), but paper bags are clearly not the solution.
Click to expand...

wasn't one of the reasons why we stopped using paper bags and started using plastic bags because of the effect on the environment?
 
PukeGreen said:
If the knee-jerk status quo defenders always got their way we'd still be [...]dumping raw sewage into lakes and rivers
Click to expand...

We still do that! The province really should just force municipalities to charge whatever necessary for water to put the infrastructure on a reasonable amortization scheme. Pipes aren't sexy and thus relying on one-time grants is foolish.
 
CDL.TO said:
There is a very solid argument that paper bags are worse than the environment than plastic bags.

  • Paper bags generate 70% more air and 50 times more water pollutants than plastic bags
  • Paper bags use 4 times as much energy to construct compared to a plastic bag
  • Paper bags use 84 times as much energy to recycle compared to a plastic bag

A 1990 study of the full life cycle of paper and plastic bags concluded that "Through a lifecycle energy analysis, plastic is the better bag. At current recycling rates two plastic bags use less energy and produce less solid, atmospheric, and waterborne waste than a single paper bag. Moreover future improvements only increase preference in plastic bags."
Click to expand...
Who funded the study? There are studies out there that show the most bizarre things ... the pulp and paper industry funded some that demonstrated that paper diapers are environmentally better than cloth.
 
nfitz said:
Who funded the study? There are studies out there that show the most bizarre things ... the pulp and paper industry funded some that demonstrated that paper diapers are environmentally better than cloth.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure bout money or economics in that area but I know i don't want to putting paper diapers on my kid lol... just a random thought.
 
GraphicMatt said:
My shoppling list regularly includes cans of oil, machetes, chainsaws and flaming bowling pins so I don't know why I haven't learned to juggle already.
Click to expand...

Well your problem is rather simple. First you haven't attended clown collage. And second you are supposed to start with small balls. That and trying to juggle your little brother and his friends, or your brothers hamsters. All are fun, and a lot more fun to watch. but hay if you want to give us a deminstration of the flaming bowling pin juggling ill pay you $10
 
Jonny5 said:
When you buy a sanwich at subway, they put it in a plastic bag, that is specifically designd to fit a sub. They don't charge for it though. Should they?
Click to expand...

SHHHH don't say anything or they may catch on to it and start following the trend... nah don't worry its already figured into the cost of your sub. same as all bags were before it became a public issue, now they are making more money off of you. its all a sham.
 
PukeGreen said:
I'm tired of this debate. It comes down to a classic case of the convenience of individuals versus the good of society as a whole. Sure it's convenient to carry your goods out of a store in a plastic bag every time you buy something, but that 20 or 30 seconds of convenience means hundreds of years in a landfill, oceans and trees clogged with plastic, dead animals, and wasted petroleum in a world of high oil prices. Yes, some plastic bags are reused but the vast majority are not, despite the personal habits some claim to have.

I've hardly used any plastic bags for 2 or 3 years now, ever since they started selling those reusable totes for $2 at grocery stores. All the reusable bags I've purchased in that time are still in perfectly good shape despite near daily use. They are actually a lot easier to carry than plastic bags, because they are larger, squarer, and have better handles. When you take double-bagging into account, I'd say that the average tote carries a lot more than 2 plastic bags worth of groceries; maybe even 3 or 4 times, if you pack them carefully.

A small percentage of those around me also seemed to make the change voluntarily -- perhaps 20 percent -- but most did not. So evidently, a measure such as this was needed. We had a chance to do this voluntarily and it didn't work. Those who argue that we are being "coerced" or "forced" to make the change are missing the point: if you haven't made the change already, then you obviously weren't going to make the change voluntarily anyway. Just because you've decided that you don't care about the greater issue doesn't mean the rest of us should have to be plagued with your plastic bags.

Receiving a plastic bag is a service. If you want a service, you pay for it, just as you would expect to pay for grocery delivery, or for a cab, or to send a letter through the mail. If you don't want the service, you don't have to pay for it. Simple. Besides, 5 cents for the occasional plastic bag when you forget your reusable one hardly seems like a punitive fee in our society.

It always amazes me how much people protest every tiny change. If the knee-jerk status quo defenders always got their way we'd still be driving cars with no seatbelts or airbags, killing ourselves with leaded gasoline, breathing second hand smoke inside elevators and classrooms, dumping raw sewage into lakes and rivers, drinking and driving with impunity, etc. Some people need to stop acting like spoiled 2-year-olds and look at the bigger picture. If you want to protest something, there are thousands of more important issues out there.
Click to expand...

I rarely quote, but Puke, thanks so much for this - absolutely agree with everything.
 
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